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Guest santhana

Royal college should read super ego cafe

34 posts in this topic

hi

first i would like to thank and congratulate webmasater for this himalayam effort of beeing able to bring the exam candiates together this kind of forum should have been initiated by royal college istead of spending money in conducting surveys and doing faculty meetings tutor meeting etc

the basic concept of getting the trainees to pass the exam is not in the training culture among consultants weekly supervision is generally a farce(except a few dedicated consultants who are very rare to find if u find they ave too much committment)

again whe u want to paln fro preparing u do not get guidance (thaks to superego) we do not have opportunity to share our views with fellow colleagues

the whole exam system is not transparent ( if they are nor=t divulging exactly how they r passing ppl they r not doing their job well)

i magine we have got over 3000 posts in this website alone so if we are given a chance we will express our views and wishes

i like the idea of all trainees/exam candiates sending a letter to royal college to shake up their act together

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On the eve of Australia vs. England in the rugby union world cup,something which has occupied my mind far more than it should have considering i was revising for THE MOST DIFFICULT EXAMS IN THE WORLD OF MEDICINE,i couldn't help but relect that:-

1.The match is only 4 hours or so away now,and i've stayed up half the night boozing and being happy the exams are over.Sh*t!This'll catch up with me tomorrow!

2.I gave a lift home to a lovely ex-colleague of mine from India and we both agree that the format of the exam is flawed in numerous fundamental ways ie,

(a)Setting aside the irrelevance of being able to sum up an entirely obvious set of results in the absolute minimum 2 paragraphs in 2 minutes so as not to jeopardise your chances of a pass in the critcal appraisal,the part 2 written exam is flawed majorly by its basic sciences exam which benefits nobody who has worked hard whilst levelling the field and in particular promoting the efforts of those of us with english language-cultural backgrounds who can sometimes(hey!sometimes only-i'm no genius!)see beyond the question to the subtext of it.This obviously prejudices candidates from any other background.

(b)Once we get to the clinical exams the playing field is even more uphill for those of us with english as a second(or xth)language.The fact that i am a born-and-bred Liverpudlian who will often take longer than an hour to see 'difficult'(ie.part2-like)patients despite working in the city either marks me out as a dimwit of the highest order(i hope not!)or illustrates the difficulty some of my colleagues must face when forced to take a full history and account for aetiology, risk, investigations, management and prognosis all in one hour.Far better might be an extended time limit with likewise for the examiners to know we understood the case more deeply or a long-due consideration by the college that long cases help nobody decide who is adequate and who is not(instead:who is lucky and who is not;or who understands this man's rampant glaswegian accent and who does not...).

3.PMPs-nope...can't see a way round them........

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i can c your point sickman but i think i have not got a problem in taking history MSE examination even though i am born and bred in south India and did all my studies upto A level(eqivalent) in me own language i dont think after working so many years at least 2 to 4 that would be diffcult

in fact yesterday in Belfast i had completed full history includinf MMSE and extended frontal lobe tesating and a full pysical examination including detail neurological examination(and actully found few positive points on physical!!!!!) all in 45 minutes and asked one of the organisers to take the patient out They kept asking that i have another 15 min more

so the assessment is dependant on individuals style ans speed which they can gather info and practice i n physical exam so i would say we may not have english as a first language but as doctors worked in countries like India we are far more capable of working under pressure due to high volume of patients we see in our day to day pactice (in this country they will call it a heavt op clinic if they have patients in excess of 15) I used to see atleast 150 patients a day in my busy chest medicine clinic single ahndedly with a resarch nurse no only just ausculating but doing spirometry writing up the research notes etc between 8am and 1pm

i would agree that the exam is flawed in several ways but no in the practice or in the prejudice as you mention Hey at the end of the day we came to this country to do our training in English so I should not be moaning about the language!!!! or the culture !!!!! ( We are not far behind in wester culture the way out cities are going now )

Yes the theory bit i will agree about the way things are presented but again it is not about the language but it is the colleges attitude i presenting and setting up questions ( as you must be aware of plain english campaign) they trey to use double negatives and and linger sentences so that when you rach sentence 2 u have lost the plot in sentence 1

so coming back to your point i will entirely agree that the whole process of this exam need to be overhauled to make it more user friendly and standardised with international norms of exams

like after preparing for more than 3 weeks for clinicals practcing all subspeciality cases and pmps I just got adult in long case and 3 adult pmps so no LD no child no forensic no old age so clearly the nature of the practice is not standardised and questions are not distributed evenly or there may be an unlucky candidate who may get LD,forensic and old age when he may be a staff grade in adult for 4yrs

FINALLY AFER HAVING A GOOD MOANING FOR 15 MINUTE AT 545 AM I SHOULD NOT CLOSE WITHOUT GIVING SOME SOLUTION PROBABLY THE EASIER AND MORE COPREHENSIVE WAY OF CLINICAL MAY BE THROGH OSCE TYPE OF ASSESSMENT

it is standard valid and used in all other faculties including part i now

AAHHHH I FEEEEL lot better now feud kindly do not take anything i said in the personal sense i was just expressing my viees on the whole english busainess and hope you r enjoyin your rugby i am going to get pissed today........................................

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I should say I was born and bred in South India (same city as Santhana) and did my entire schooling and medical education in English.Still I do find it a bit difficult to understand 'the English way' saying things.However,I don't see that as a minus point.As Santhana has mentioned earlier,we South Indians are born to strive(no wonder,in both US and UK, top positions-software and medicine are flooded with South Indians).

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THE MRCPsych EXAMS - A SURVEY OF EXAM CANDIDATES

November 2003

Dear All,

Now that the MRCPsych exams are over for another few months, I think it is the right time to survey all the Superego Café Forum members on their views and suggestions. The plan over the next few days is to contact all the members by email to request their participation. That's over 1300 people!

There is a survey for both parts of the exam. You only need to complete the survey if you sat an exam this year. The survey is anonymous but you can only complete the survey once.

There are questions on the following topics:

1 textbooks you found useful

2 journals you found useful

3 revision courses you attended

4 websites you found helpful

5 revision techniques you used

6 your views on the written paper(s)

7 your views on the osce or pmps/long case [optional]

8 your views on feedback reports [optional]

9 your suggestions for improving the exams [optional]

10 your questions to the Chief Examiner [optional]

As you can see, the survey has questions on a wide range of topics which should take 10-15 minutes to answer. Hopefully there'll be lots of replies. The results will be forwarded to the Royal College.

Please complete the survey. You can find it at this link:

http://www.superego-cafe.com/survey/

The closing date is 14 December 2003.

If you know anyone else who is not a Forum member but has sat an exam, please forward them the link.

Kind regards,

Gurpal

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i hope you pass santhana and ,,radhika it won't look good after what you revealed about your skills!!!

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Doh. There is such a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Why put pressure on yourselves by proclaiming your greatness? I agree with balal, I do hope you pass.

Elvis :)

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Elvis thats exactly the point there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence when people question your confidence then one of the ways of dealin with it is by responding arrogantly but hey elvis we are all stressed with this stupid exam and do off shoot the mark now and again at the end of the day no pint in shooting the messenger the root cause for all our moans graons confidence arraogance all were generated from the raw deal we get i the exams from the college and already when we are hurt it pots more oil in the fire when youe capablities is also questioned and i totally disagree with bilals coment so does he mean to say we are not allowed to be positive in our own feelings about ourselves then there is a basic problem i n understanding life

just because somebdy givee a nice positive statement about themselve it does not mean that they have to be right all time and if we fail it does not change the fact that we do have some good qualities and skills

lets cut the crap and start uniting together to fight the exam monster rather than rading in between line like ploiticians and do nothing productive

i want all of us to pass and go up the ladder the concept college is will not acknowledge

good luck guys!!!!!

i am off for a night out and to drown my sorrows!!!!!!!

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Elvis and Bilal,

The college wants confident candidates.There is nothing wrong in believing in yourself.The exam is not reflective of your skills-because one may fail this time and pass the next time-without improving much!! I believe that people judge you as you judge yourself.Anyway,if I am a service user,I would like to be treated by a confident psychiatrist who believes in her/his skills. Sorry if I sounded arrogant.What I mentioned is the plain truth!!

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;)

oh here we are at the verge of another silly 'you' 'me'!!

Some of you really cannot control[!!?? ::)]your freedom of expression.

Anyway this is Super EGO cafe!so there will be clashes!

cheers

:-X

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Hi ya,

I am not saying anything to hurt anyone.Do forgive me if I have hurt anyone in the process.Anyway,what's the point in fighting?It is not you guys all this frustration(and overcompensating by expressing confidence) is directed to.All of us have a common target.So let's fight THAT out.

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hey everyone,

have just come back from a short holiday.dont ask where--it just rained!!!1 and came back and to read this!!! about arrogance and confidence and the +ve qualities of south indians!!!!!whats up chaps, nothing to do or to talk about.

have still taken time off work just to chill out even if it means to stay at home. ;)

anybosy game for party!!

elvis where r u?maybe we can meet up for a bash.what say u king?

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mcqcrap

tis the best offer I 'ave 'ad today. You are right that things have been a bit slow this end. I am off work over the next few days but fear you are too far away. Hope you enjoyed your break - Ill email you.

Later old boy

Elvis 8)

Old scottish proverb say :

A SHUT MOUTH KEEPS A WISE HEAD.

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I tried before but i didn't win

Now I know why!

By the way can I borrow your hat.I feel cold & I am oncall tonight 8)

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do u want my french accent to go as well.might b useful in dealing with pd's/

have a good on call

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i do not understand why this part of super ego has so much of psychiatry boasting and crap! is this a special site for 'special south indian people'

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NO, it is not.This site has been started by a ery valuable  post by Santhana.Things went wrong when some colleagues took things personally. I do think that some of the discussion was on a very valid issue, even the college has shown interest on the effect of racial differencies on pass rate. It is a shame that the discussion has been diverted in a way which ruined the the initial goal. i wonder wether we still want the college to read this?

I think it is of no harm to throw some humour from time to time especially when the atmosphere is very tense, so please accept my apology if this has been classified as CRAP. If this is the case ,from now i shall always follow the OLD SCOTTISH PROVERB ( Thanks to The King Elvis) 8)

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south indian?? ???

lots of southies out there!eh! :lol:

idli vada dosa :P

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Now you `ve all got me started.I have been maintaining a low profile after i was badly let down by the college in the written exam. and am still considering my options.So what`s all this talk about self confidence,low self esteem, and all what not.Personally i don`t mind anyone been confident about themselves and saying the exam was as easy as ABC.So long as you do not lift yourself up by slagging off someone else.I think it is perfectly normal. If anything it gives me hope that the exam is passable. Most people come out of the exam moaning quite rightly but ther will always be the odd 1 or 2 persons who might find it easy because they may have been Lucky enough to have practiced the questions asked.

Common guys let`s direct our energy towards changing the archaic thinking at the college and the trainnig programme

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I have had a few days off and was a bit surprised to see this thread still going on. Am trying yo find distractions to keep my mind off the resultsm -has anyone seen the film'marathon man' or'dog day afternoon'? Much obliged.

Elvis :lol:

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no but watch 'Secretary' very diverting darling.

Stopped me thinking about the results for a minute or two!!!

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