talisman71

Horror of new junior (training) doctor contract

54 posts in this topic

 

Today the talks of the new junior contact for August 2016 have opened again.

I read the information from the BMA with feelings of dread and despair, I fear psychiatry trainees may come off worst (as well as the GP trainees who will have their GP training supplements removed)

-Normal working hours are to be considered from 7am to 10pm including Saturdays- you will only be paid on call supplements outside of these hours

-If you are non residential you are not paid supplements for on call times anymore but an 'availability allowance' in your salary. I’m not sure how much this will be, but I can imagine will work out significantly less than banding.

-Any private fees (i.e. MHA) must be returned to the trust if the are during NHS hours (e.g. on call)

-Maximum working week will be 72 hours in any one week.

 

Any thoughts anyone???

I am currently locuming and am considering applying for ST4, however I’m not quite sure that this contact is really workable. For example how are we supposed to fund childcare so we can be available during on call if they wont pay us?!! The basic pay is currently crap anyway- and why should we not be well paid for being available in the middle of the night and the massive reduction in our quality of life that comes with being on an on call rota. Whether you are physically there or not, it is a still huge commitment which negatively affects on both the doctor and their family.

A very sorry state of affairs.

 

 

 

 

Edited by talisman71
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I am a CT3 and it actually puts me off applying for ST4. Why would we want to work more hours for less pay? I am tempted to become a locum or work privately.

I didn't realise this will effect MHA assessments too!

Also I am sure the cost of exams, courses, membership wont be any cheaper as a result of this.

Very very depressing!!

 

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I agree this is a very sad state of affairs..effectively overturning all the terms and conditions that were put in place to combat the 100 hour weeks and McDonald's pay of pre-2000

am seriously considering leaving training if this comes in...

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I would love to trust the BMA to resist  it, but let's be realistic-  remember how they did when they tried to block  the stopping of the annual 1% pay increment!

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I am a CT3 and it actually puts me off applying for ST4. Why would we want to work more hours for less pay? I am tempted to become a locum or work privately.

I didn't realise this will effect MHA assessments too!

Also I am sure the cost of exams, courses, membership wont be any cheaper as a result of this.

Very very depressing!!

 

I know how you feel Demy and totally empathise with you. The bit that worries me is the MHA assessment pay - a large part of my pay is from MHA assessments. I'm a specialty doctor, but considering going to ST4 in a year or two. But, I was concerned about the pay drop I would likely face as a reg if my consultant(s) over the 3 reg years didn't let me do any in hours assessments. Now it looks even more bleak. 

Does anyone know if this new contract will affect specialty Drs and consultants doing MHA assessments between 9-5 ? How will the Trusts know we have done them, let alone enforce us giving the pay to the Trust. I for one would never give my MHA money to the Trust - I earn it, not them. But I totally understand the double pay issue, and that the Trusts could just deduct whatever time I spent doing the assessments from the pay from them. 

I'd def resign and locum it or go private sector or move (Australia, Canada etc) if this was enforced. No way am I taking a drop in pay. Can't afford it with two young children, and mortgage etc. :-((

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Lot of SpR on calls will become vacant if they are not paid for the MHA assessments during their on calls.

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I'm a CT3 considering my options in terms of ST4 vs Locuming.  What do you think this new contract would do to the ST4 and locum market?  I'm wondering if I should just get ST4 over with before the new changes are introduced.  Do you think this will cause the locum/private market become saturated because nobody will want to be a junior doctor anymore?

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I believe the new changes are starting in August 2016 with regards to pay cuts. I just don't know what to do!

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Quote taken from blog...5% banding supplement only proposed for nonresidential oncalls...

https://psychiatrysho.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/why-the-new-junior-doctor-contract-is-a-slap-in-the-face/

. It mistakes non-residential on call hours for lazing about
The new rate for non-residential on call hours (being at home, but available), is just 5% more than a standard hour’s work. As if doctors who have to rush in from home at 4am to do procedures that only they can do are of no use, when in fact, doing such on calls is often hectic, grueling and vital. And again, specialties who don’t have a huge demand for residential out-of-hours work, like my own, will suffer disproportionately.
7. It discriminates against women and men who want a family life
Currently, if a junior doctor changes specialty part-way through their training, effectively starting again, they stay on the same rung of the pay ladder to recognise their past service to the NHS. But under the new contract, pay will revert back to the lowest rate if the doctor decides to retrain in another specialty, or become an academic. Apart from being a harsh punishment for anyone who simply decides that they want to change their career direction (how dare they?), this is a flagrant swipe at women and men who want family lives, who often retrain in specialties more suited to that end, like GP or psychiatry. As if the fact that stopping annual pay progression will disproportionately hit women who work part time, as pay rises will come every 6 years instead of every 2, wasn’t bad enough.

 

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Things are only getting more difficult by the day. At the end of the day they want to squeeze out the money as much as they can as and from whatever avenue they can choose. 

Difficult days in NHS has only begun !!!

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I did not join the last strike as I realised the NHS could not afford to give us the 1% payrise. This time I will strike as I strongly believe we will be made to work in unfair and unworkable conditions with this new contract. I feel very sorry for those finishing medical school. Who will want to train in psychiatry now? A seven day NHS is a great idea but why should we pay for it out of our pay packet? Whether I like it or not I cannot live on 2000 pounds a month in the South East and I won't be able to afford to finish my training- I don't think this is fair considering the years of overtime and goodwill we all put in and I'm prepared to strike to fight it. If they can pay the tube drivers extra for unskilled work then I fail to see why they can't pay us fairly. 

Edited by talisman71

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Hello,

I am not sure some times by this  7 day NHS.

There is Junior doctor, cover, Spr  Cover and the Consultant Cover  .

Some one else might disagree, but we are  7 days  service , I am not sure if we can do anything  different,

But NHS is changing for sure..

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All trainees have been invited by their deans to discuss this

i believe all trainees attend their meetings in their deanery

we have all received emails on Friday 

if you haven't make contact with pg dept or deanery

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The point about pay going back to the start of the scale if you change speciality.. Is this just if you change speciality? What if for example after CT3 you locumed for a year then went knot ST4.. Does you pay get put back to the start of the scale again?

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The point about pay going back to the start of the scale if you change speciality.. Is this just if you change speciality? What if for example after CT3 you locumed for a year then went knot ST4.. Does you pay get put back to the start of the scale again?

that's also a good point. Most of us locum for a bit in the middle. I was a Febuary starter and Casc results weren't out so I couldnt apply for ST4 straight away. Does that mean in ST4 I would retract back to pay point 0 again? 

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It won't hit people who have a gap in their training. It will just be those who get to st6 in something then decide to become a gp. They'll have to start from the beginning again 

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Being a Scottish trainee I am one of the lucky few, in the NHS Scotland are leaving our contracts alone for the moment. Nonetheless I stand with my southern colleagues in opposing this travesty. Plus we have similar shortages up north, anyone fancy a visit? First round is on me!

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Northern Ireland government has yet to make a decision about the contracts but we are still planning to protest!!

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