Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Guest guduri

On call Beds

17 posts in this topic

Since this ***t partial system trusts are started removing Beds from oncall rooms >:(. BMA has no clear answer for that. What do you think about removing beds from oncall rooms. Please post your opinions.

(Please don’t say we should be doing my letters, audits etc... when we are free on nights) ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you already know my opinion....

I don't understand why management have such a bee in their bonnett about what we do at night if there isn't any work to do.

Anyone else had the same problem? Has anyone managed to get their bed back? &nbsp:lol:oes anyone else do resident on-calls or are they mostly non-resident now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think medical staffing is keeping SHOs under control. That reflects on this message board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we need proper trade union just like firemen and tube workers. I don't understand this fixation of NHS management on beds in on-call rooms. How on earth is removing beds from on-call rooms going to make you work better? Any idea anyone or is it one of these ideas like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we need proper trade union just like firemen and tube workers. I don't understand this fixation of NHS management on beds in on-call rooms. How on earth is removing beds from on-call rooms going to make you work better? Any idea anyone or is it one of these ideas like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

:P

You guys need to get more militant in the UK. In Ireland the unions are much stronger.

There's endless studies on the risks of shift work to health. Adance management that they can prevent work-related stress liability and risk of future litigation if they stop the bullying and harassment of doctors.

You have to get tough and you have to act as a cohesive whole and basically start smacking management around with threats of bullying, etc., . It all comes down to money with them. If by backing down they will save money, they will back down. So create a situation whereby what they do ends up costing them more or a the very least they should see that say removing on-call beds could cost the trust more not in waffly nonsense but in the only thing they value - money.

You must make it expensive and for it be always perceived to be more expensive for them to push doctors around. And cry assault and bullying every moment you get - that is the world that management has created with useless lawsuits so adapt to their creation or die out. You are a commodity to them - understand that. Make *you* more expensive to push around; that *you* is plural.

(in ireland BTW).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with you, freq_108 my man!

I was the chair at the oxford JDC last year when all was happening and we managed to get quite a lot out of the trust by being united and presenting a systematic review of health risks involved in working night shifts.

Same happened in Broadmoor soon after. They wanted to remove everything and we stopped them that way.. nevertheless as soon as my group left the first thing they did was taking the beds away.

I think the core problem in the uk is there are too many managers in the NHS and not many leaders.. they lack vision and they want subordinates to comply with their order by mean of coercive power. (Yes I did revise social psychology :lol: )

Way forward is to try get those people some vision in by being united and consistent in our requests.

Carlo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

our trust tried to do similar thing in north east trying to take away the oncall sho room.

everyone including the consultant body reacted very strongly against it and the rota had to be changed from full shift to partial shift (just for the namesake, we kept doing the on calls as we were doing earlier).

If every medical staff on the rota and the consultant are in agreement then trust cant force their ideas on us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>:(

I agree with frequency_108. We need a stronger organisation and consensus among us. And people who are not afraid to fight for their rights.

In France (Paris), in the trust I worked they decided to take away the SHOs parking permits in the hospital.

The next day, the first that arrived were the A&E SHOs. The first one left his car in front of the hospital entrence. Then the next one, and next one, and by 8.45 there was a ~500 yards queue of SHOs cars parked in front of the hospital, blocking all the trafic. Then the police came, then the jurnalists, and it made the first page in the news.

The next day the director of the hospital resigned, and we got our permits back.

Just an example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if all the training SHOs would refuse to cover crap-conditions on calls, (like it happened last year in ES trust for 6 months) - whether consultants/managers agreed or disagreed, then they will have to cover them with locums... 8)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think beds/ oncall rooms are a MUST for all doctors.

The managers (although most of whom have nursing backgrounds) try to play these games in an attempt to make their own positions 'more powerful'. This is not only unacceptable but they are crossing their limits and roles and deserve to be shown their place >:(. They appear to get a perverse glee in these stupid games.

One way of doing this is to raise a risk alert every day for a couple of weeks stating that the clients safety is being seriously compromised!

There is a good article in the latest BMJ Careers 'The rise of the nurse or the fall of the doctor....'

How far are we going to fall before we start taking active steps??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a union - the BMA

I agree we need to be firmer

Manager = A Nurse in a suit

I am currently in 'negotiations' with medical staffing re pay and conditions. I am in a luxurious position that if they don't come up with the goods I can walk. I am fed up being made to feel that I am a greedy winger if I complain about conditions. I have worked very hard to get to where I am, and I frequently work beyond the call of duty. What is more how can you expect your staff to treat patients well, if they themselves are treated badly?

Managers are there to provide an environment for their staf to work comfortably and therefore effectively. They often seem to forget that.

BTW - we managed to get a temporary repreive of our on call room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anyone do an audit on Living and working conditions for junior doctors. if yes could you please post the results and aftermath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8) 8)

talking on the issue of nurses i guess its us who are to be blamed for the mess we find ourselves in... :-/

over the years we have devolved into sissies .... we have been crying hoarse about the amount of wrk we gotta do and we have been asking for reduction in oncall hrs and duties..... :(:(

we used to be looked up to by nursing staff coz we could do things that only we could do... ;)

there was a unique mysticism in moving around the hopital corridors and wards at 3 in the morning.... drinking tons of coffee and doing things ranging from something petty like venflons to something major like cardiac arrest managemnt..... 8) 8)

but now we have nurse pracs for all that.... what we can do, they can do (and sometimes better!)

HOW CAN WE NOW EXPECT RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FROM THESE NURSES ??? ??? ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

REGARIDING THE BEDS

i wrk in a trust in south wales and we had the same issue... we stuck together and the medical director was very vociferous in his support for us...

we managed to keep the beds...

on paper we are shift system but in reality we wrk like a non resident oncall...

hence we only stay in those rooms if we wish to... we dont need to if we are within 10-15 minutes of driving distance... but nevertheless the oncall room and beds are there if u wanna use them... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i guess the moral of the story is:

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL... OUT OF BED

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New standards for living and working conditions for hospital doctors in training, This revised guidance takes forward the provisions for accommodation and catering set out in Living and working conditions for hospital doctors in training.

This is a new agreement reached following discussions between interested parties including junior doctors' representatives, regional New Deal task forces officers and NHS managers.

The agreed standards apply UK-wide.

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/newstandardshospdoctors?OpenDocument&Highlight=2

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndStatistics/LettersAndCirculars/HealthServiceCirculars/HealthServiceCircularsArticle/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4003955&chk=TB0gQe

Read this and compare your living and working conditions.

Please don’t say I am working in this country for long time, this is hot topic nothing will change, I had enough etc…The above link will tell you what you should be getting. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0