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docsanju2003

Immigrants and the colour of money

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Why do immigrants come here?Is money so important that they dont mind being discriminated?

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docsanju go n get some anger management for yourself, you seem to be full of anger, try to get some postive energy flowing :)

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Hi Docsanju, good topic but u should open the disscussion with ur own view,what do u think immigrant and colour of money? i think it should be power of money bcos pounce and euro are very strong currencies; :lol:

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this thread is pretty vague and would docsanju just come up with why he chose to come to this country before asking other members?

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Money gives you options and lets face it there are 10% of the worlds population who have acess to about 80% of its resources.

Why should you be condemned to a life of no options?

We study and migrate to get better options,going back may actually be unpatriotic.

I know of alot of people who send alot of hard currency and pay for school fees,orphans ect..Something they would never do if they were back home suffering with the rest.

Lets not kid ourselves it is healthy to think about ones income and plan accordingly.

Globalisation means the free movement of people,goods,and services.So you need to sell yourself or get sold.Correct me if i am wrong.

If things opened up in India or China in the next 20 years and i had the oppurtunity trust me i would be there :)

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it appears that docsanju is in a double bind. my opinion about the matter is that money has a lot of negative connotations to it. morally we are brought up to be good people doing the best for people and as doctors this is even more so. unfortunately it is quite difficult to get the right balance. a lot of us from developing countries come from systems where working for a nobler cause at home is just not that straight foward. i think at the end of the day as adults we are faced with choices which we make and my dear docsanju that is how i see it.

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disctimination and prejudice are integral part of social behaviour as we come across this concept in social psycholgy and being attracted to earn money is as being attracted to opposite sex.because that provides you comfort and happiness.money is resource.Immigrants came here in pursuit of money-thereis nothing wrong.man has always a tendency to look for better grounds for better survival. the other side of coin being that evertything has got its price to pay which i am sure everybody must be paying.we are away from our homes ,from our people,our languages,our food and our life styles.moreover the uncertainities here in regards ot future is iceon cake.

there is nothing right or wrong.its decisions we make that define our life ,our future and draw our destinies on plane paper of present.its just decisions based on multifactorial factors at a given point in time and space.some decisions are wise and some unwise depending on what tool you use to measure.

although it is our very responsibility as a member of group which we name as- nation(india), to be able to provide the other members i.e. our fellow countrymen with in whatever way we can .

this question raised in forum is very important for it is very begining of a need of honest answers which everybody needs and later thoughts changing into behavior.as we can remember the song in rang de basanti-''khalbali hai khalbali''

i appreciate doc sanju for raising the question.

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I came here for the money and dont regret it.I think as paritosh said we loose some things to gain something.It depends on how you think.I have a friend of mine who is very happy working in a remote phc in india.

So money is not important for everbody.

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Interesting and debatable topic. I hear from friends who say they came over only for better training oppurtunities and others who say for better quality of life as the system is more organised. When I hear such comments, I always get the feeling the MONEY is the main primary reinforcing factor, whatever the other reasons might be. Wonder if such people would come out with similar remarks if 1 pound equals 10 rupees in future and u continue to have take home salaries in the region of £3000. It is OK for me when I hear from friends singing lavish praise about this country, but it irks me if they blatantly make harsh comments about India(even if true).

It's individual choice but in my opinion majority of people coming over, do so only for financial gains (including myself). I dislike people who r not honest with themselves

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RAMANIYAM thats the point iam trying to make here.Be truthful of why you have come here.

It makes me angry when some of my collegues tell their consultants about how good the training is here :-? and you know what i tell the same consultant?

I tell them that the pepole who take up plab and come here are not the cream as percieved but the buttermilk ;) who dont get any pg seats back home :P

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it is heated debate , i donot know its egg or the chicken , but money makes world go round and round, i have seen people colour changing with the money , even in our own culture the son who brings most good money is given the hot meal and warmth as priority by the mother than unfortunates siblings,,,,so lets be honest its money and better life thats why we are here , and in next few yrs any one with the skills would be international commodity , irrespective of cast creed or colour , :lol:

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I suppose the good thing about doing medicine is that even the most ethically questionable practices (exclusively private/locum work, cosmetic surgery, Limited Company tax brackets, masses of section 12 work, massive involvement with drug companies ) are relatively ethically sound in the grand scheme of things, ans whatever you do you will always earn several times over the national average wage.

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sanjudoc, i dont agree with u on that point, i took mle and plab becoz i didnt want to stay in India purely because of working conditions, I was doing surgery in safdarjang hospital, new delhi, I hated the way things were done, yes I got lot of experience, may be a surgeon havent done as many central line placements and venous cut downs or minor surgeries as many as I did in my PG ist year over there, but I hated the the whole hierarchial system I hated the bullying, the way juniors were treated and seniors were treated like God, I hated the way patients were treated, there were no bed side manners , no ehtics, my friend was Obs and gynae, it was so bad that she called it slap therapy, ie the slap the woman if she does not push, I left it not bexause of money, Im sure I would have earned lots as a surgeon there, I so badly wanted to get out of the system that it was almost desperate, I took both mle and plab, my score in mle was 90 and 92, I came here cos I met the man I wanted to marry and he was working here, if he was in US, I would have gone there, dera sanjudoc, may be you came here for money only and may be you came here coz u couldn't get a seat there, stop generalising it and stop giving an ideal picture of'Back home' whereever it is. I love my consultants, Never in India I'd have sta down with my consultant in achilled out way, Sexually explicit comments against women are so commonplace that it is something that women doctors accept with a pinch of salt specially with pich of salt, there is no ignity in working, its all displacement, boss gives me shit, I give junior shit, junior gives pateients shit. So darling stop your idealistic views of'back home' they make me sick

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god so many typos, sorry i was writing with passion :) :)

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bluemoon, out of curiosity can i ask with so much background and experience in surgery why psychiatry?

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i agree with ntanda, toyota and ramaniyam.however i too feel money is the main motivating factor.gmc is well aware of this more than u and me. i wish and believe the economy of india will reach great heights and our colleagues in india will be in better positions than us ,both financially and socially.at this point none of the drs will be keen to come here.

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I've always been bemused by Indian doctors who say that they come to the UK 'for the training' and then proceed to bash UK grads by saying that doctors from India are better.

I can't say that I'm at all surprised by the end of Permit-Free Training. A condition of receiving it was having the intention of returning to one's own country upon completion of the training. How many actual did so?

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look!

there are two sides of a coin. A single person can debate this issue EFFECTIVELY, either way. There would be numerous reasons for people to migrate to a different country. It is an absolute mistake to generalise it. On the other hand, we put up with lots of rubbish either back home or here. They are just in different shapes and forms, that is all. One really cannot measure and say which is better or worse, as it totally depends on an individual's perspective. One might be able to put up with the heirarchy in India than the social isolation and away from family home. However, one might be able to put up with the latter than the former.

So, please stop this nonsense argument about how good or bad one's country is. Every country has its own pitfalls and people adapt accordingly. There is no ideal. We are fighting for our existence wherever it is.

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toyota surgery is not that great and psych is not for leftovers, its a good field, and there is some chance of a decent life

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the fact is that we all need both the training and the money that comes with it. even if u were back home u will still be aiming for both. just focus on improving yourself cos u will then have a good market value any where in the world. dont insist on your opinion being better than everyone else'. again remember WE ARE NOT AFFECTED AS MUCH BY EVENTS BUT BY THE WAY WE PERCEIVE THEM. goodluck.

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some opinions expressed here are simply stupefying!!

if the permit free wasn't discontinued,i reckon we wont even be avin this debate!?

..if u think india is great,then return...if u think its better here,then get on with it,hey!

8-) :D

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I've always been bemused by Indian doctors who say that they come to the UK 'for the training' and then proceed to bash UK grads by saying that doctors from India are better.

I can't say that I'm at all surprised by the end of Permit-Free Training. A condition of receiving it was having the intention of returning to one's own country upon completion of the training. How many actual did so?

Come on mate, admit it, most  Indian doctors (considering they also have to work harder for career progression compared to their 'more equal ' local colleagues) ARE indeed better (in training & work ethics & interpesonal skills & adventure....) than UK graduates.

It appears oppurtunistic to talk about recieving PFT and the condition

( Obviously there is nothing on paper ) of having the intention to go back to one's own country.Re: the reason why they came to this country...It their blooming business and I do not think anybody has the right to question why they came and how long should they stay in this country especially with the historical links we have!! I'm thinking of staying for 150 years. Anybody has a problem !?

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My role model in Psychiatry is Dr.Chai Patel who i feel will control the Psychiatric services.

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