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slartibartfast

Meditation

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Was having a chat with a friend yesterday about meditation..

and he was pretty interested in it.. even going as long as an hour or two with some of his sessions..

ive tried it and managed twenty minutes max..

however i did get some benefits..

we did whats called vipassana or mindfullness meditation..

and it felt great.. if i was to honestly answer what id really like now.. apart from the usual wimmen n money answer.. id really like insight/awareness and energy..

and thats what i got in spades.. i felt like i could really See.. interactions... insights into peoples behaviour and my own.. energy.. and a lil eupohria thrown in for good measure..

i then stopped doing it precisely because i kinda felt like i Had to do it once i noticed the benefits.. my friend continued for a while..

until he hit upon a certain derealisation.. now in meditation thats a good thing.. it means youve achieved objective awareness..

unlike what we learn.. that derealisation is associated with a subjective sense of distress... guess it depends which window you look out of..

he spoke about it on a meditation egroup he was on.. and no one really acknowledged that it could be a bad thing..

it was also getting in the way of his rapport with people as he felt too far away from them..

so he stopped doing it..

i never completely liked meditation.. as it takes the motivation out of you.. for the usual goals ambition thingie..

it says.. chill out.. dont stress yourself.. meditate.. be even.. if youre sad.. acknowledge sadess.. if youre happy.. acknowledge happiness.. but dont get too caught up in it..

a while later i got the you are not your body.. you are not even your mind realisation..

got me to thinking that buddhism was the only true religion.. most of the buddhas teachings seem like overindulgent waffle.. but the thing is that with meditation.. you actually begin to See it.. changes your worldview a little..

some positives.. some negatives.. but like anything.. you take what works for you..

What id like to know is..

have any of you guys tried meditation and whats your experience been..

are there any other experiences youve had that have had the effect of changing your world view.. i.e. yoga, martial arts, dance, tantra, maybe even sport etc etc and what have you guys learnt from it..

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I've tried meditation, don't have the legs for it! Never got past 20 minutes.

Did get deeply into self hypnosis a while ago. Not sure what is going on there but was pretty cool. Went through a stage of about 3 months when I started seeing screaming faces, clear visual images and put it down to a typr of charles bonnet effect.

There is a guy in america called ernest rossi with loads of internet publications I think you've be interested in.

as for buddha. well i'm not keen on all his ideas. we can't all sponge, someone has to bring home the bacon.

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I agree that you do experience derealization.It truly was a magical experience for me.

I believe meditation needs supervision, as I got a bit carried away and started to do more than I was adviced to.It proved disastrous.

I quit doing it after a span of 2 whole years twice daily, as I felt so much energy and almost alienated from the rest of the world.I felt helpless with all of this energy, not knowing what to do with it.

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Meditation for self realisation is something totally different...

What most people experience as depersonalisation and a sense of euphoria, are the physical signs and symptoms of CO2 washout... because most meditation techniques involve some amount of hyperventillation excercises... for eg: Pranayama...

this subjective feeling of derealisation is not self realisation...

The problem is... those who have a psychotic focus... according to the stress vulnerability hypothesis, if the person is vulnerable to psychosis or depersonalisation.... he will be in lot of trouble....

I have seen a guy... who tried doing some meditation and started feeling some tingling sensation at the bottom of his spne.... his 'guru' told him that he was feeling the KUNDALINI rise up his spine... :lol: Unfortunately for him... the kundalini did not rise... >:( and the poor fellow was left with the tingling sensation... and was diagnosed with some kind of somatoform disorder NOS.....

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What most people experience as depersonalisation and a sense of euphoria, are the physical signs and symptoms of CO2 washout... because most meditation techniques involve some amount of hyperventillation excercises...

I'm glad someones got it all worked out

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hypervetillation and alkalosis explains most of the principle behind chanting, singing hymns loud, etc  which are part of the religious exercise to make you feel liberated and in unison with the supreme or your inner self or whatever you call it...

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Guys

There has been research going on about Yoga and Mental health in India.I dare say that they are seemingly effective in certain neurotic disorders including mild-mod depression.

Can someone clarify what you mean when you link hyperventilation with meditation/yoga?My basic yoga knowledge tells me it is not hyperventilation but systematic breathing that is involved.Modern/westernised version is the well known systematic muscular relaxation/relaxation exercises.

cheers

PS:I demonstrated and did ask my young client to hyperventilate last week to simulate panic attack! great way to give feedback.

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Ram...

Progressive musce relaxation is quite different from meditation or yoga for that matter...

If you are talking of yoga... which involves the various steps of yama, niyama etc... it is at the stage of pranayama, you do the breathing in and out... Controlled breathing again is quite different from the type of breathing done in pranayama... In pranayama, invariably you dont control your breathing... but you breathe at a particular rate, which is definitely more than the normal rate of breathing... which leads to CO2 wash out... those who are prone to get a panic attack by misinterpretation of the symptoms at that time will get one... but those who dont, will get all the symptoms of a CO2 washout...

People who do follow yoga or trans med... do achieve self realisation... ie when they do it systematically through the process of yama, niyama etc... people do not show signs of self realisation doing some meditation in 2 or 3 months... most of the wierd experience that people get during the initial few years of practising yoga can be attributed to the hyperventiallation and other physiological processes like sensory deprivation...

and that shud not be mistaken for any signs of self realisation...

There may be some research happening in India, but nothing very significant... if at all there are, I dont think the findings are quite robust...

I dont think it has a strong evidence base though... in treating many psychiatric illnesses...

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I beg to differ dori....

The research in India happened in front me while I trained there. one cannot just assume it is not robust or remark about the significance.Maybe it is caught in the net of 'pub bias'.it was definetly on a RCT model.anyway,

One needs to have control to breathe at a particular rate .Meditation is mainly focussing mind(Dhyana).One might do this initially by concentrating on the rhytmic breathing(not hyperventlating though,so ?co2wash out) -dharana and various other techniques that become part of Yoga.

in PMR one is asked to focus on the state of their muscles(tense vs relax) again a technique to focus hence the connection.

I feel self realisation is a very subjective phenomenon and others judgement of it is irrelevant.

i rest.May peace prevail!!

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