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childpsych

Is SPR post going to be disbanded in 2007

22 posts in this topic

I am sure you all would have read by now the latest newsletter published on the home page of Royal College Website dated May 5 stating the new reforms which are planned for restructuring the training in psychiatry in UK

According to it in 2007 there would be an introduction of a unified grade of six years duration and would be called ST or specialist trainee grade and the present grades of SHO and SPR would be finished.

Also probably teh present concept of Part 1 and Part II MRCPsych examinations would also be done away with and instead a European model of six years of training would be adopted with the CCT or Certificate of Completion of Training rather than present CCST would be given only in two specialities which are Adult Psychiatry and Child Psychiatry. It would be given at the end of six year of training.

Now the question is how the present people who are already in the training are going to be adjusted.

I would like all my colleagues in whatever grades they are to discuss these important reforms on this site so that we know what is going to happen.

Child psych

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you will get a cct unless you finish before september this year.

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I am not quite clear about all this.So what happens if you finish before september this year?

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And what do you mean finish training?is it at Sho or spr?.

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you will get a cct unless you finish before september this year.

Johnniespring

I asked someone from the royal college and they said all those who enter the CCST programme will be awarded ccst and those entering the cct programme will be awarded accordingly.

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So doesthis mean every other person starts afresh with the new programe no matter what level they are?confusing.

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grace

it is quite confusing and different people give various views on it. I am not sure even the royal college knows everything about it at the moment ( One would assume they would !!). As i said above, i found from my sources at the college and they pretty much said what i have said in my earlier mail.

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Thanks Mickey.

Right now i'm still upset about having to take the exams again.And to think someone somewhere will later say it was not necessary at a later date.Very confusing.

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Hi grace

My advice is that those who have passed the exam will always stand a better chance than those who haven't. com'on, common sense, if you were an employer.. two complete strangers to you, applied for the job.....who would you take???? the one with better qualifications or the one with no credentials and all talk......... you know the answer!!!!

So no matter what they say...... ' the exams will be scrapped and all that bull****, you will always be at an advantage if you have the exams, so Good luck and i hope you pass the next time.

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Hi Mickey,

Thanks for your advice.It certainly makes more sense to me.I guess i have no option but to dust the books.

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Mickey,

I suspect they will have credentials, I just think the assessment format will change. What concerns me is will employers prefer the old MRCPsych way or will they be dazzled by the flashy new foundation business?

Human nature tells me the later will be the case.

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I suspect that there will be a sudden rush on people applying for the exams as the end draws near .

to be sensible if there is never going to be another chance to obtain MRCPsych surely it will become extremely desirable to obtain this qualification .

Is this not human nature ?

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My rotation is going to be completed in 2007. SO what would dat mean ...no SpR training after the rotation :-/ or another 3 years as an SHO :'(. Also for the ones who wil pass there part 1 and are not ready to take the xam in 2007 ......what would there fate be ??? Too many confusions here

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you can get clear answer aboout this topic in 'dean's letter sept 2005' in rcpsych web.

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was just reading the deans letter, and from the algorithm at the end, looks like the only thing that will change is the dropping of the S in CCST! Most of the remaning looks much the same with part 1 and 2 exams!

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~Other things that are gonna be changed are the ways they're gonna assess the trainees.

It'll be Mini-CEX, mini-PAT AND CbD.

viz;clinical evaluation exercise(cex)

Peer assessment tool (PAT)

Case Based Discussion (CbD)

Exams might be changed as well.

Anyway, we'll know all changes in 2-3 weeks, at least according to dean's letter.

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According to the Newsletter of Sept 2005 both the exams are not going to be disbanded at all but the Royal college has managed to get these exams part of the SPT training -

There was one question mark on FRCPsych after finishing the training

see on the following site

www.rcpsych.ac.com/training

and see the latest newsletter. Now what does this mean for those who have passed the examinations and end their training. Would they have to take an exit examination in the form of FRCPsych or what?????????

But other thing is very interesting - only those who complete their training in UK (and apparently not in Ireland) would be awarded CCT . Anyone outside UK would have to apply for equivalence to the PGMETB

What does this mean? For this information go to the website of PGMETB and see the criteria for award of CCT and also Article 14.

There are so many changes going on that it is nearly impossible to predict what is going to happen?

What happens to those doctors who are doing SPR TRAINING IN IRELAND. Would they get CCT. The IPTC should make it very clear.

Dr Hussain

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Yeah I would agree that the vacuum left by the college on this aspect has led to speculation & uncertainity.The truth remains that the college is intimidated by the PMETB as it remains quite an unknown entity in its current remit.The political will in establishing PMETB was to get the Royal colleges to tug the political line as it was getting too powerful for political liking.

So if U look at the current uncertainity it serves a purpose....the old guard assessing the new kid in town!The PMETB is heavily dependent on the college to find its feet initially & the colleges would leave no stone unturned in making this learning curve as steep as possible

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But that is going away from the meat of this thread,Are SpR posts going to be disbanded?

I think the answer lies in run thru trg which means after FY2 & into spl trg the SHO & current SpR posts are to be amalgamated to result in junior consultants which for all practical purposes will resemble today's SpR but will serve a valuable political agenda!

Now don't quote me on this issue,this is my understanding of reading between the lines of MMC & PMETB initiatives.

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Either way there is no need for trainees to panic,the hurdles are going to be the same but called differently.The requirement for trainees & completed products will be driven by market forces,it doesn't bother me if the stick at the top of the food chain has changed hands....we as clinicians will be doing what we did 50yrs ago and if they make it tougher for us to do our job in conducive environs..the recruitment issues will automatically reset the clock.

The question for trainees to ask is if they are going to make good psychiatrists in the time now avl for trg or this move is to get hordes of generalists & people with speciality interests will have to plough there own fields away from mainstream.

Since the first cohort of FYI & II are not due till Aug 2007,there is enough time for the royal colleges to iron out the details.

During my own discussion with Prof Bhugra, RCPsych dean, it was clear that there was a perceptable vagueness & it was obvious that the devil is in the detail for which everyone is playing the waiting game.

So comrades...don't worry keep chugging!

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Johnniespring

I asked someone from the royal college and they said all those who enter the CCST programme will be awarded ccst and those entering the cct programme will be awarded accordingly.

they were wrong i was right. as of 30th sept this year the ccst can not be awarded, it's a cct.

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that means without warning the almost automatic system of the NTNs matching the consultants needed goes out of the window. In a way we go back to the old system of heavens knows when you will be appointed as a consultant.CCT means you have finished your training to be a specialist.

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