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Guest drayazuk

F2 Post &  MRCPsych ?

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Hi i am working in mersey rotation, they r introducing F2 pilot from august 05 for 2 yrs before its fully implemented by 2007.

which means that u enter as F2 & become junior consultant after 5yrs ???.... no exams.

What will happen to people like me who r planning to sit for MRCPsych part 2? what will happen to spr posts?

Anyone who knows about this new plan & like to share his view is much appreciated .

thanx

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This is the scary thing. No-one knows.

It seems as if all of the effort so far has been in getting the foundation year system up and running, and only now are people looking ahead a couple of years to the run through training.

I've not managed to find much information out about how existing SHOs and SpRs will fit into the new scheme, or where exams will fit. It could be that FY people won't sit MRCPsych, but some other new type of assessment.

Where this leaves the rest, who knows?

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hi serab,dreyazuk and chris,

i had raised this in the new member convocation and did not get any clear answers. i am doing a staff grade post having cleared my Mrcpsych and basically waiting for4 some suitable posts to be advertised.

Anyone out there with more information?

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A good place to look for recent developments is 'The Dean's medical education newsletter' on the What's new page of the college website - April 2005 and May 2005 both have newsletters.

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Had a look a current deanery newsletter thing and it didnt specify anything about trainees who are 1/2/3 etc years into a rotation already. Obviously the worry is that our experience will not count and we will have to start from scratch. Im going grey thinking about it. Would greatly appreciate any info about this. ???

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Clearly anyone in training to receive a CCST will still get that . The CST will be introduced  in 2007 and the other phased out . This has happened before when training changed from senior registrar to specialist registrar and when exam format has undegone some changes , people still took the old exam while the new exam was being held .

As concerns exams , they will still exist but in a different format . Exams will no longer be a biannual event , they will be ongoing events at the end of each placement and they will take on different forms such as OSCE , ISQ , 360 deg asessment , and viva voce . You will not be able to progress without satisfactory completion . There is also talk of a final  part III exit exam coordinated by the college .

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AS far as i understand from the newsletter and some of my consultants...the MRCPsych exams will remain though in a changed format. The ongoing assessments envisaged - 360 degree, Mini CEX, PAT and CBD (currently running in F2) will be in ADDITION to the exams and will be annual events. One will not be able to progress without clearing (reaching a satisfactory level) in theses ongoing asessments. The situation is not so clear regarding clearing the exams and how that relates to progression....and absolutely no information about this proposed part III exit exam.

Seems to me like in its current shape the 'run through' contains MORE asessments and exams than we are currently subjected to.

Lastly the mind boggles as to how they are going to ensure noncompetitive progression from ST3 to ST4 (subspeciality selection).....ppl whove cleared the part II seem to be in a stronger position to go to ST4 and get their choice of speciality. Talk about doing away with exams and competition!!!

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anyone already doing spr training will now get a cct not a ccst. for those in sho posts now there will probably some kind of transitional arrangements, but what they is unclear at present.

the last stuff i am aware of about the mmc arrangements is that training will be 6 years. the exams will exist in some form or other. it may be that pt 1 is after 1 year of specialist training and a pt ii after 3 yrs(ish) (ie pretty much the same as now).

the best way to find out is to try and find out who your regional college training committee rep is and contact them and ask.

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a lot of people say those currently in the system won't be affected but yet CCST used to mean a consultant post in the NHS but CCT does not necessarily mean this. The changes affect people who are currently SpRs.

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This is the latest advice from our head of rotation.

There are major changes in post-graduate medical training on the near horizon.

As of 30th September 2005 the Postgraduate Medical Education and Training Board (PMETB) has statutory responsibility for medical training. One of their first jobs is to implement Modernising Medical Careers (MMC, DoH)

This means that as of August 2007 there will be no SHOs or SpRs.

Instead there will be a 2 year Foundation Programme followed by a 6 year Specialist Training Programme.

The Medical Schools and Deaneries will appoint newly trained doctors to the Foundation Programmes. Doctors will be fully registered with the GMC after FY1.

During FY2 selection to Specialist Training Programmes in all specialties will occur.

At present it is proposed that the Deaneries will appoint to Specialist Training Programmes, with recruitment based on interest and work place assessments.

On completion of 6 years STP doctors can apply for their Certificate of Completed Training (CCT).

In Psychiatry there will be 6 CCTs – General Adult (GA), Old Age (OA), Child and Adolescent (CA), Learning Difficulties (LD), Psychotherapy (PT), and Forensic (FP).

It is proposed that assessment will be partly work based assessments and partly by the Membership exam. Part 1 MRCPsych will be taken in STP 2, and Part 2 in STP 3. Trainees who need longer to pass their exams will have the opportunity to side step into non-training posts (L). There are discussions about the structure of the Membership exam and the possibility of adding a Part 3, or exit exam.

There are also discussions about post CCT training.

Doctors who receive their CCT can apply to be on the GMC Specialist Register. The only other way to get on this register will be via assessment by the Equivalence Committee. This is a new committee at the College and its remit is primarily to assess doctors who have completed their training abroad.

Current advice is that SHOs and SpRs still training in August 2007 will be “slotted into” the new system, rather than running parallel systems. Details of how “Slotting in” will work have not yet been decided. Best advice to all trainees is KEEP YOUR LOG BOOKS UP TO DATE. These may be used in the “slotting in” process.

It is because of these imminent changes that we cannot give contracts or commitment to training beyond the end of July 2007.

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All indications seem to point to the end of the conventional MRCPsych as we know it possibly as early as Autumn 2006. There are as we speak no more recruitments to the traditional basic rotational schemes in psychiatry for February 2006. There are only adverts for 6 month contracts with potential applicants put on hold depending on details of the new training to be worked out! The plot then thickens- there are no selections for specialist training at all in August 2006 as F2 kicks into gear.

I got these details from listening to the dean of the college speak on an interactive seession at one of the conferences of the Royal College recently.

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Clearly anyone in training to receive a CCST will still get that . The CST will be introduced in 2007 and the other phased out . e .

CCT introducted from when PMETB took over ...so even people who JUSt finished their 'oldstyle' training will have recently received their CCTs (and not CCST). The are asaying that there wont be much difference and i guess for the most that will be true but do be weary of that.

Post CCT training will be at the behest of the local PCT according to local needs and not ur own aspirations.

As for PSych rotations - many of the london (through ignorance or disorganisations) are offering 2-3year contracts for SHOs ...but now are admitting that they are not quite sure how they will fit in post -2007.

It is fair to say that none of the proposals are clear or indeed set in stone and many may change. I suspect that those doing/halfway through MRCPsych will be allowed to complete (through an old bank of questions) and those already with part II will not be required to sit for a part III. this isnt clear as it may be that part III is a &quot:lol:OP' or other work-based assessment.

Juniors are in troublesome and uncertain times. That's my take on it for the momment unless proven otherwise.

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I agree with the last bit about the troublesome times, which become more even annoying(...ahhhh...I will bite someone) if you think that every month there is a new thing coming out and no one knows what to think....

But London trusts have woken up....these trusts that failed to offer me one valid contract and this is my fourth job with them on the rotation....yes those trusts are now offering one or one and a half years contracts....

Well what can I say? Good luck to all of us!

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Guys with regards new contracts i believe six month contracts mainly apply to new SHOs commencing psychiatry from February 2006. No trainees will be recruited in August 2006 as F2 will commence. In fact none of the medical specialities will have new UK trainees in August 2006.

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i think the best option for foreign doctors is to not write plab anymore. going to usa instead is a better option...atleast after 4 exams of usmle u r set for life..with a set residency for 3 yrs n then relatively easy board exams n entry to fellowship...n further jobs.

in uk u end up writing plab1,2 then mrcpsych 1 n 2 which if u are lucky u clear in one go.then difficulties in getting jobs..n spr's ,reducing salaries...

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what makes men happy??? ::);)

wonder what US residents have to say about their life..

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