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Guest pribse

Change in Training

13 posts in this topic

I need some clarification regarding changes in the training scheme. In the most recent publication of the psychiatric bulletin it suggests that in the brave new world of PMETB and MMC there will be further training following the award of CCT. This is after 6/7 years of run through training. Presently once a specialist registrar completes his/her training with the award of CCST he is eligible to become a consultant.

To me this would mean actually more years needed overall in psychiatry speciality training. Any thoughts people out there?

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Dear Pribse,

They have stopped awarding CCST as of Sep 05 - it will be CCTs from now on. From what I am told things work this way - From 2007 the whole foundation thing will start and people will have to go through 3 parts of MRCPsych. They will finish in 6 years, including the run through grade, and finish as JUNIOR CONSULTANTS, who will be supervised by a senior consultant (how, don't know) for 2 - 3 yrs, and then become independent consultants.

Thats everything in a nut shell.

I don't know if I should mention it, but Prof Dinesh Bhugra is talking to the SHOs in SLAM/Oxleas about things on 07/11/05 at 5.30 at IOP, so I guess there will be a number of clearer ideas after that. Don't know if it is an open event, as there was an internal email.

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interesting but previouly if you were successful at exams and SpR interviews you spent 3 years as a SHO then 3 years as a SpR doing a single CCST and hey presto you are a consultant. Not categorized as jnr or snr. What about those of us in the middle of the current system?

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Hello!

According to the BMA news I am holding in my hand, it seems that they are thinking to keep a parallel to MMC training for current SHOs until 2009!

A DoH spokesman said that plan on how to handle the transision had not been finalised. (page 3)

I trust that they are abandoning the idea of an exit exam (=third exam) and they are thinking of RITAs etc....

The junior consultant thing, as well as the dual training is not very clear though....at least to me! ???

Everyone is saying try to pass your exam as quickly as possible...!

Good Luck :)

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Looking at this thread is it not obvious that with this attempt the beaurocracy is getting the post graduate training revamped as well as meeting the national requirement of workforce met in one masterful stroke.

People becoming consultants before the foundation year cohort hits the ground are just lucky as the process was not this tedious,unfortunately the people caught in between will bear the brunt of changing climes.

But this can be an oppurtunity too as this system is loaded in favour of people who may be clinically good but find the exams an unnecessary hurdle in their natural progression.By the looks of ,if one is into the basic trg,the run thru system ensures that U come out at the other end.Then its up to the indl concerned to chart future course obviously not with the same clinical lead role as of today's consultants.But then how does it matter,as some of the staff grades I have worked with are far more experienced and adept at their job than some of the consultant collegues.This way it seems a fairer playing field!

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Obviously there is no doubt that further trg in higher specialities is going to be longer and it does not matter to the govt whether a pt is seen by a jr consultant or a senior consulatant till the time the targets are met,so thats not a priority now.Trg from then is one's own initiative and after RITA kind of assessments it will lead on to sr consultancy.

As far as clarity on this subject is concerned I don't think the colleges are any wiser at this moment but it would be intersting to hear Prof Bhugra's comments on his brief with the local SHO's at IoP.It would be worthwhile if any of the forum members attending it can enlighten the rest of us!

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there is something i don't understand WHAT exactly does higher specialties mean? Is it seriously being suggested that some sub specialities have higher status than others?

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No..... there is no need to get hung up about status of specilities.There was indications at the formation of PMETB stage that there will be only 5 broad specialites in psychiatry and subspecialisations will happen after the run thru trg although after ST3(speciality trg yr3) the trainee is on track for his specialisation.There were also rumours that may be adult and child psychiatry will be the basic streams to start with so the term higher specialities will mean sub specialism.In any case as discussed in these forums earlier, it will be some time 'fore the actual picture emerges!

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Hello

Where would the new system place staff grades who have not yet completed part 2 of the current system? Any thoughts?

Many thanks

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Hello

Where would the new system place staff grades who have not yet completed part 2 of the current system?  Any thoughts?

Many thanks

Your guess is as good as anybody else's.

I did think if I should give a go at doing Part II in spring 06. Instead, I wonder if I'd better book myself a bed (there is a waiting list for that too).

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I think this idea of a junior consultant is unfounded - to be fair the only term i have seen used is a 'senior medical appointment'. As far as i can see the only difference between consultants now and in the NEAR future is the degree of sub-speciality training they have undergone. It will be more apparent in Medicine and Surgery.

Eg Urology where this is a wel formed (though crap!) plan: 5 years to become an 'office urologist' -ie the basics, diagnostician, cystoscopies etc. IF THE PCT/TRUST (envisaged Foundation) decide they need an operative urologist or one retires (or however they work it) THEN they will sselect from amoungst the office urologists to undergo further (post CCT) training to get operative qualification. So it is no longer completely upto u (as it is with current SpRs) what u subspecialise in if at all. The quid pro quo is that training is shorter (although that is the governements wooden horse as opposed to a genuine benefit in my humble opinion).

For psychiatrists, I guess it would be a slight problem for a say budding liason neuropsychiatrist with an interest in Epilepsy, but for the most of us it should be business as usual...and a case of building up expertise if thats what ur interested in.

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A DoH spokesman said that plan on how to handle the transision had not been finalised. (page 3)

Err I think thats understatement of the year ....and theres probably room for further such reassuring comments from our friends at DoH.

I trust that they are abandoning the idea of an exit exam (=third exam) and they are thinking of RITAs etc....

Unlikely Godzilla. I think for those going through mrcpsych it will be ok but watch out for a new part 1 soon enough (07/08).

We very recently had a talk on this by Dinesh Bhugra (thanks for the plug goob94) and it seems that training will be a 5-6year stint with some form of selection after yr 3 into further subspecialities (ie Forensics, old age, GA, C&A, PsychoRX & LD) -further 3 year training before CCT. Part III is envisaged after year 5 and is likely to be long case type 'case-based discussions'.

CCTs are award and not CCST as they are being awarded by new body (PMETB, vs STA). As PMETB also cover GPs so that is the reason. Apparently there is effectively no difference between CCST and CCT ....yeah right!!!

He says 'check out my 'Deans Newletter' - it may all change tommorrow'!!!!

Anyway who knows. Just get NTNs while there are still out there ......

cheers

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