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Guest bunny75

re: training posts

21 posts in this topic

hi,

I know that Dr. Kantham had a similar post going couple of days earlier. I really need your advice regarding my problem.

I entered the rotation in aug 04 and have been given only adult posts uptil now i.e 3 jobs in adult.

My next posting is again in adult psychiatry. The posts

that were given to me was never my preferences. I

attempted Part 1 in sep 05- passed theory but not the

clinicals. Rest of my colleagues have always been

getting what they have asked for. This time round those

who did not even clear the theory have been offered-

old age, L.D, substance misuse jobs. I have always

spoken to my tutor whenever there has been job

placements in a polite manner but she has been

unreasonable and never considered. I have excellent

references from my previous consultants. I have already

done 4 audits .None of my consultants want to talk to

the tutor on my behalf which seems quite paradoxical

inspite of good references.

I really do not know what to do? I feel that I

really need to stand up for what she has been doing. I

again feel powerless to do anything.

Also prior to the rotation I did a trust grade job again in adult.

Will doing adult postings affect my career options?

Isn't it called 'rotation' because we are

supposed to be rotating through the subspecialities?

can pls someone suggest how should I tackle this problem and whether doing so many adult postings will affect my career.

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All sounds very frustrating. The first question to ask is are you a member of the BMA ?

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You should not get a 4th adult post in a row..full stop. Upto 3 is fine but certainly not the fourth, whether you have passed or failed your PART 1. You must raise your concerns with BMA and Royal College, but only after speaking to your consultant and scheme organizer. Keep us updated...

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Agree with the same..4 consecutive jobs in general adult is a joke!

And once u finish ur exams and become a registrar, u will hardly have any chance to get further exposure in any of the other subspecialities.

So have a word with ur tutor again, get ur present consultant on ur side and if need be, get in touch with BMA and royal college

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not to be too sceptical but at times it depends on the rotation and the organization. Some respondents may have worked in well organized large deaneries but others may not be so lucky. i do know that in some areas they struggle with providing adequate posts for their trainees. it should not happenn i know and such places should not have accreditation for training. I would advice that you make a fuss as staying quiet you get trampled on, does your overall training little good and you will help yourself and future trainees.

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i should just add that making a fuss depends on a number of things but ultimately on how brave you are. speak to as many 'senior' people as you can including the BMA if you are a member, the royal college. Also asess your options as you are not bound hand and foot to a certain training scheme. You can change schemes if one is not adequately meeting your training needs. Do not suffer in silence.

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I worked in a small rotation intially where the trainess had no say in placement allocation. In addition, there were only limited subspecialties to rotate to. Still the organizer made sure that all trainees got atleast old age and child placements before sitting part 2. Four adult posts in a row is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE ..

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It also partly depends on what you mean by general adult (were any of these jobs rehab, PICU, AOT..etc or were they very similar ?).Also do you want to go into General adult as an SPR ?

Talking to other Consultants and the BMA in this situation is vital, but kicking up a fuss is difficult.I waited four months for a police check recently and was unemployed in that time before starting my SPR rotation and yet when it came to doing anymore than just talking to the BMA i was reluctant because you are always unsure of the consequences.

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hi everyone,

thanx for your replies......after a restless night it was refreshing and above all supportive to read your replies.

My tutor is on leave until 2 jan and i personally spoke to the regional director of post graduate studies who happens to be the consultant in my trust.

His suggestions:

1...........continue with the adult post. Pass Part 1

and then can go on to the other posts. So, do not create any fuss

2............if you have greviances then contact the postgraduate dean and write a letter to them addressing the issues. They will immediately contact the tutor and start an enquiry. It really sounds daunting to me, considering the consequences. As an overseas cadidate and the rest being white where do i stand?

Also, what about my tutor? how will she take this?

3.................BMA cannot help in these cases.

4................when i asked whether it would affect my career prospects he was hesitant to say so.

I am in a fix. i thought I could garner support from him atleast! sigh!!!!!!!!!!! but..............

EVAN------my 1st posting was in general adult

2nd & present adult/rehab

4th will be general adult

also the best part is I have worked with 2 locum consultants in my last and 2 nd locum in my present post.

I am a member of BMA

I am not sure that I want to do Spr in Adult be'coz I have not being posted anywhere else. I do not know what the other subspecialities are like to make a decision now.

As you are an Spr, pls can you comment on what are the interviewer's view on doing 4 placements in the same subspeciality.

All my Sprs' are on research training today and hence I am unable to contact them.

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i also want to add that my trust has quite a few specialities and that my tutor can post people accordingly.

i also applied for the feb 06 rotations to all in london deanery including birmingham, manchester, liverpool, leeds, oxford and cambridge inspite of my exams. But no single shortlistings . I was suprised that inspite of having 1 1/2 yrs experience in psychiatry in U.K i was not shortlisted.

i feel at times am i going psyche !!!!

by the way the postgraduate director asked me whether i beleive in astrology. If i have malefic planets in my chart then unfortunate things happen without our control. Being from India this 'revelation' totally blew me!!!!!

trust him to say something like this in a situation like this!!!!

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Hi Bunny, I think u have been treated unfairly by the tutor. 4 adult posts on the trot when there r other subspecilities in ut trust is really unfair. At least u should have been given an old age post by now.

I am not sure whether writing to the post graduate dean is a very good idea. If u write I don't think it should affect ur career, as u r telling the truth ie u have been given a raw deal.

However even if there is an enquiry ur tutor may find 100 reasons to defend herself- her easiest excuse would be that u have not passed part 1. So I don't think any enquiry will find fault with ur tutor.

The best thing would be to forget about it and go ahead with ur adult post. The last thing u want when u r trying to get through part 1 is the hassle of enquiries etc. Concentrate on getting ur part 1, which i am sure u will,and once u get it u can call the shots and let's see whether ur tutor sends u back to another adult post

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I would like to add that if u do want to go ahead and write to the post graduate dean, u have a valid point. u can say that u have not been able to get part 1 as u have not had exposure to other specialities, like old age,and in part 1 definitely there r questions from old age in both the written and osce. I would advice u to speak to ur tutor again, however unreasonable she is,and also the BMA, before u go ahead and write a letter.

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hi sands73,

even if the postgrad dean makes enquires she will not be able to defend herself becoz:

1...........L.D has gone to a person who is attempting part 1 for the first time in march 06

2...........child has been given to a person post part 1 but who has already qualified for part 2

3.............substance misuse has gone to a person who attempted part 1 for the first time with me but did not clear the theory . He was given child post previously and so he is already qualified for part 2

4...............old age again has gone to persons who attempted part 1 first time with me and have not cleared the theory

In fact even if she gives the reason that I did not clear my exams , the defences from my side are also plenty---4 aduits, cleared theory but not clinicals, very good references from my prevous consultants and the above discrepancies.

I am not saying that I will complain to the post grad dean right away, but want to emphasise that it is really unfair, unreasonable, frustrating.

there are facts that can be proved true even when if they enquire. The flip side as you correctly mentioned it my exams are drawing closer and I do not need the hassle . But.........

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Talking to other Consultants and the BMA in this situation is vital, but kicking up a fuss is difficult.I waited four months for a police check recently and was unemployed in that time before starting my SPR rotation and yet when it came to doing anymore than just talking to the BMA i was reluctant because you are always unsure of the consequences.

My police check took 5 months. There is a time lapse these days maybe because of lots of requests.

bunny75,

sometimes rotations dangle the part 1 over you and use it as a criterior to progress adequately with your training. it is very difficult and sometimes you should go with your instincts. Your worst fear does not always have to come true. I think stating what you want clearly and going about achieving it is very important. After all we are psychiatrists trying to alleviate low self esteem and teaching assertiveness and problem solving in our patients.

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hello toyota,

i am not sure that i understood what u were telling me in ur previous post.

if i m right, the suggestion is to assert myself and go ahead with the complaint.

pls do let me know.

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well basically do what you feel best. sometimes the job distributions can seem unfair but as i said not having your part 1 yet could be the stumbling block. weigh up your options and do what you feel is best.

Good luck.

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Hi Bunny,

Sorry I didn't realise that people without part 1 have been given sub specialities. This makes it more frustrating, no doubt. As I said before I think u should speak to the tutor again, however unreasonable she might be, and try to impress upon her that u actually need to do something other than just adult, and express ur disappointment that u have been given another adult post, while trainees with much less experience have been given specialities.I don't think u should be denied at least an old age post.

About writing to the dean, I am not very sure. I still think it would be a hassle when u r giving ur exams.

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Dear Bunny,

I feel general Adult Psychiatry is a very good experince to have. Also different consultants have different approaches to patients. 2 years of general Adult Psychiatry will not kill you. Involving the post graduate dean might be a good idea but giving things in writting can be dangerous.

Before getting on the go clear the Part I this Spring. If you have failed only in OSCE just practice with few of the other guys. Its not rocket science. You will surely pass.

The best way is to start your battle after your part one.

Remeber once you involve big names etc the whole thing might go out of your hands. Also likely its going to be a war. Is it worth it?

After part I you can always say that you are considering applying elsewhere. You would get jobs easily.

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hi,

my tutor is on leave until 2nd Jan. So I will speak to her after that.

whether this will affect my future career prospects?

an answer from Spr will be appreciated!

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one thing that never fails to astound me about doctors generally in training in the UK is that people become extraordinarily fixated that their career is going to be ruined by upsetting ?someone. people walk around so terrified of this but i must say in recent times i have not seen one case where this is true.

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hi toyota,

i was not referring to my clinical tutor but to the 4 adult posts that i have to do.

i wanted to know what will be my chances if i do 2 yrs of adult posting with regards to my career ?

for this i was requesting an spr to comment?

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