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cyclothymic

protected pay??

50 posts in this topic

does anybody know how long do u have to be in a substantive post as a staff grade of associate specialist b4 ur pay as an Spr is protected,, advice much apprecaited ::)

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I thinkit is at least 6 months but you need to confirm.

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I am no expert on this matter but you should able to confirm this with medical staffing where you work, and also the BMA.

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According to BMA there is no fixed period, you could be in the job for 1 month or 6 months, it does not matter.

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There's no way any trust would protect your basic salary after a month's staff grade work.They'd all go broke !

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I have to agree with Evan. If the BMA says there is no fixed period, then it'll be up to the Trust to decide. I'd doubt very much they'd protect your pay after a month as a Staff Grade. Ask HR: you'll get an idea.

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I know this chap who took up a staff grade post to boost his basic pay, he handed in his resignation the same day he was appointed, he needed to give 3 months notice - so he worked for the 3 months eventhough he got an offer for an SpR post already, which he managed to delay for 3 months.

His pay was apparently protected (never saw his payslip myself :-), although probably illegal as he had the offer of the Spr Post before the staff grade one.

Totally sly and abusive of the system and would not recommend it. Although due to the current shortage of the Spr numbers most of us will end up taking a staff grade posts anyway.

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Bma usually ask for your membership no before they entertain any queries , but it's worth trying

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Paragraph 132 of the Terms and Conditions of Service state:

'132. Where a practitioner takes an appointment in a lower grade which is recognised by the appropriate authority as

being for the purpose of obtaining approved training (which may include training to enable the practitioner to follow a

career in another specialty), the practitioner shall, while in the lower grade, continue to be paid on the incremental point

the practitioner had reached in his or her previous appointment. Such a practitioner shall receive the benefit of any

general pay awards. On reappointment to the higher grade or on appointment to another higher grade, the practitioner's

starting salary should be assessed as if the period spent in the approved training post had been continuing service in the previous higher grade. Practitioners whose previous appointment was in the Northern Ireland, Isle of Man or Channel

Islands hospital service are eligible for protection of salary under the terms of this paragraph.'

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Imran!

precise answers as always from you! thanks a lot.

and

cyclothymic, have you managed to find out the answer? if you have,please let everyone know.i think many of us are itching to know the cut off times!

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Pay protection is from the time that you accept the job -ie just post interview if that is the case.

What is important is that the future employers are explicit about your future placements (say in spr rotation which may go out to different trusts) and the banding of those placements. If they say that posts are decided on a year by year basis then they should be explicit about where you MIGHT go.

If they are not then you can effectively plan out your life financially (that is the argument at least). You should write, in this case, to your 'base hospital' HR and ask them for this saying 'otherwise i will assume that my posts will be protected at band 2A/2B' (depending on what the prevailing bandings are in the scheme).

Heard in worked pretty well in the north east -although that was for peads.

hope that helps.

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Please help:

If one takes up a locum NHS staff grade job from an sho, does one's salary get protected and for how long must one do the locum for it to count.

many thanks.

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No sure what you mean ..but pay protection only applies for the duration of the training grade concerned. e.g. An SpR starting in a 3 year rotation can expect to know at the begining of the rotation what his pay is going to be over the duration of his 3 years.

As for a locum staff grade (ie non training post), it is paid at a standard rate according to experience (negotiable) and depending on term/length of contract has yearly/set increments. I'm not sure u need to be worried about pay protection.

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From what I know, locum posts do not result in pay protection - it needs to be a substantive post - it is best to check with the BMA.

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This is correct. Locum posts are not subject to pay protection. I think that they are not obliged to pay protect unless you have been in a post for 6 months. (however I could be wrong on this point). Also when negotiating pay protection, it is quite reasonable to ask for an extra point on the scale for Part II and one if you are Section 12 approved. (in a staff grade post) :D

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Let me tell you guys from personal experience , I had to fight tooth and nail to get my pay protection ,and 7 months into my SpR job , I still have not received my protected pay scale although I have been told that they have decided to award me the pay protection from December with back pay .

Still to see my December payslip .

I have been advised that it is not only back- pay that I am to receive but also increased on call rates because the banding attracts a payment depending on your annual salary .

Be aware of the pitfalls .

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Sorry Neopallium what do you mean by:

but also increased on call rates because the banding attracts a payment depending on your annual salary.

??

Payprotection surely refers to a level on the payscale (according to experience) + the agreed protected banding (eg 2A/B etc). I'm not sure how the annual salary bears on the banding supplement. please explain!!

ps congrads on getting ur pay protection ....it pays (literally ;) ) to be persistent. It also may pay to be a member of the BMA as they can help with pay protection claims (and apparently are quite successful).

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I am lead to believe that each band attracts a % of your annual salary . So a band B might mean that you do a 1:10 rota and a 1:10 pays say 50% of your hourly rate .

So if you are on 50K you will earn differently to your mate who is on 35K. This reflects seniority and time spent .

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Well yes sort of.

banding is indeed a specific % multiplier of your salary, which appears as a supplement on ur payslip.

so for the moment a Band 1 (ie <49hours/week) attracts either 50% (A -ie more intense working pattern), 40% (B) & or 20% (C -just plain sailing) additional supplement. Band 2 (<57hours/week) attracts either 80% (A) or 50% (B) and Band 3 -if ur lucky-ish - doubles ur money.

Which band ur on or which intensity level is worked not, not on the crapness of ur rota (eg A+E rotas are usually band 1A but clearly do more work than some surgical specialities) but on some predefined rules. Rules are in the Junior doctor handbook (available via pdf) or on the bma website -they even have a 'band calculator' where you can work it out for yourself.

the banding is based entirely on ur working pattern and number of hours worked. The seniority has no bearing. The seniority determines ur basic salary (eg SHO 2 or SpR 5) which is what the banding is multiplied by. It goes up in yearly increments.

cheers

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When moving from staff grade to SpR it should be your basic pay that is protected and then any banding supplement should be paid on this amount.

E.g. if you were on the top point of the MH03 scale for staff grades you would get a basic pay of around £43, 800 - this is what should be protected.

Then if you move to a post that is banded at a 50 % supplement, then you should get paid around £65k.

As Neopallium says this can be a pain to sort out - I am trying to sort it out with my Trust at the moment.

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good news guys i got a mega payslip this month with all my back pay since May 2005 so i am feeling rather happy with my perseverence . I had to fight tooth and nail , the trust that I work for were trying everything to get out of it . They were particularly afraid of arbitration and that is how it would have gone if they refused .

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just in time for christmas!

the drinks are on you and mine is a pint.

Well done.

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it definitely pays (excuse the pun) to be persistant . The trust i work for were seking advise from other trusts on how they would deal with the problem . If they refused I would have gone to an employment tribunal and they knew it .

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