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RAAJIANAND

Is Idi Amin in DoH?

12 posts in this topic

Latest BMJ careers -

'part of the rationale for the department's announcement was the need to address two pressing policy issues. it hopes first to stem the flow of foreign trained doctors arriving in Britain in the expectation of being able to get jobs that do not exist in the current employment climate (fair enough). SECONDLY, it will also help to ensure that valuable medical skills are repatriated back to countries in the developing world where they are most needed '(oh! come on! who are u kidding!).

if the DoH was so caring and thoughtful, this whole process could have been done in a proper phased manner. this sudden moral enlightenment is so annoying.

Perhaps if the DOH is so concerned about the developing nations then the best thing they can do is to repatriate all doctors of ethnic origin to their stated ethnic countries.This will lead to increase in employment opportunities for local people and NHS can thrive better.May be DOH will persuade the Home Office to cancel all the ILR, HSMP and the citizenship granted to foreign nationals.

What nonsense!!!

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Department of Health expressed surprise that the proposed changes have had such an unenthusiastic reception from many doctors. 'These are something that we have been discussing with several of the stakeholders. In our view they are being introduced in a reasonable manner,' said a spokeswoman

Either the DoH has been sleeping or asking the wrong doctors!!

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I think one should consider a historical perspective to this. Britain as a colonialist established medical schools or closely helped to establish medical schools in its colonies ...India , Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nigeria , Egypt, etc. PLAB originally helped graduates from universities from commonwealth countries to have permit free postgraduate training in the UK to help with the provision of specialists in these developing cmmonwealth countries. It would in a sense relieve the mother country of the burden of sending its own british doctors down.

Now times have changed drastically with for instance the EU and EU laws ,also the increased globalization of the world. Britain probably feels it does not owe this obligation anymore when after all a lot of these previous colonies have their own post graduate schemes. The truth is doctors coming to the UK are arriving as economic migrants. If anything the UK had felt burdened with guilt of empire not to have taken away PFT before now. I know a lot disagreee and say it is all about protecting UK graduates but why should medicine be any different from the rest of employment law in the UK or for that matter employment law anywhere else in the world.

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Fair enough, Toyota!

But the unfairness is the way it is being introduced. There is no time for overseas doctors to plan about what to do next. 5 months is all we have been given to relocate, those of us who will need a visa extension atleast. The rest have a bit more time but is that really enough to move back to our respective country of origin or wherever else? We own houses here that have to be sold, children in schools, new jobs to be sought in another country, etc. Like a friend said, '...plan dinner parties a year ahead, but quit a job overnight!'. If one of the reasons to implement this rule is to stop overseas doctors coming to a country that does not have jobs to supply, then the expensive PLAB exam should have been stopped or atleast limited. Instead the exam sessions were just increased to the maximum in the last year( 5 days a week). What message does that convey to the overseas applicant?

I agree that the employer/country has every right to choose its employees/residents(cos some are more equal), but why did they not think of giving a grace period(even if it was 2 years) so we can leave with dignity, rather than feel like 'use and throw'?

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Even road works are warned well in advance.Are'nt they?

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here we go again. my old friend the toyota twisting logic to suit the situation.its like playing ringa ringa roses, all logic falls down.

couple of home truths:

YES the home country HAS the RIGHT TO CHANGE RULES be it for benifit of locals or whatever.

YES life is tough and jobs depend on demand and supply.

NO there is no moral latitude to this ruthless, cloak and dagger rule.

NO you dont talk about economics to justify this decision, cause its not demand and supply it is something different. i.e stifling competition.

YES the 'mother' country does have an obligation to train commonwealth doctors, afterall their countries were the source of this 'common wealth' that today funds NHS, at cost of destroying the native countries infrastructure.

AND FINALLY  i quote- WHY SHOULD MEDICINE BE DIFFERENT FROM REST OF THE EMPLOYMENT LAW THE WORLD OVER.

when china takes over mg rover and causes cut back, the government does not force the chinese to re employ them. when call centres are outsourced you dont bring them back because there are cutbacks. that is globalization and free trade. i think we have a disagreement on what globalization means mate.

we dont disagree that EU graduates should get a preferance so lets leave the morality, ethics and economics behind, shall we. our angst is at the unfair and inhumane way this was done.  

by the way no personal offence meant. just strongly disagree with your point of view.

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it is the way it has been announced and implementation that is not right and callous.canada did the same but slowly.at present the situation is that a canadian citizen born in canada but graduated overseas cannot get a medical job,there are 14000 docs who have completed their canadian exams waiting.the uk is heading that way but at a crazy pace.the casuality rate is going to be very high

i guess countries have the right to plan policies to protect their own,but they have a moral obligation to treat current workers fairly.

the only right thing to do is allow the present trainees to progress and complete their higher training.the rules should be implemented over a three year lag period.pressure from bma,bpaio etc is the only way now.

lets hope that better sense prevails.

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the doh spokeswoman also said that there has been an unenthusiaitic response from docs.people affected needed to be heard and that is NOW.these rules will become formalized and the accepted norm within 6-9 months.with upcomming meetings of bma and doh on this issue,it is very important that doh is made to moderate these rules and implement them slowly so that current trainees are not unfairly and painfully affected.it is going to be a major life changing event to those affected and their families.it is not a minor matter.in fact it is a very serious matter which needs all our involvement and support.

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Dear All,

The plight of IMGs was covered in the More 4 news yesterday @ 8 pm. The channel rightly pointed out the discriminatory attitude and how this change would put competence ahead of excellence in choosing professionals. Some IMGs and a BMA JDC representative were interviewed.

The BMA JDC representative did not sound very convincing in his responses. He agreed that British and EU doctors would be preferred over IMGs and that this was a problem for the IMGs but offered no solutions. He also agreed that competence would be ahead of excellence but disagreed that this would in any way affect patient care.  

I agree that every Government has a right to put its citizens before others. But the way this Government has done this is very unfair. The pace should have been slow and the changes should have happened in a  phased manner. Someone in the DoH has suggested this and the Government has implemented this without much planning or consultations.

All that we can do is to ask the responsible people to reconsider and make the changes in a slow and planned way. If we can do this, it will be a real test to our clout (if we have any!). First we need to raise awareness and I would suggest if everyone can write to local newspapers whereever we are. The next important step would be to participate in this rally and pass the message to the Government.

Then we need to sit, cross our fingers and hope. After all this is a democratic country and I hope that Idi Amin is not at the reigns!  

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[highlight]Department of Health expressed surprise that the proposed changes have had such an unenthusiastic reception from many doctors[/highlight]  :lol: :lol:

This is absolutely ridiculous. I am honestly laughing at this :lol: :lol: :lol:

It is taking the piss :lol:

Did it expect that doctors would be partying, jumping with joy, celebrating and distributing sweets because soon they would be kicked out of their jobs and that they would be soon be begging?

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Toyota I agree with your statement of doctors coming here as economic migrants.Thats the way world economy works, when there was nothing in britain you guys went around the world looting and destroying countries atleast the so called economic migrants are not doing that.We pay our national insurance, tax etc just like you but we are still not entitled to any kind of tax credits including child tax credits.So mate this country is not doing a big favour by training overseas doctors its just that they want to full the gaps. In the past when none of the immigrants progressed in their specialities they ended up being gps and now when the local graduates came to know about how lucrative and relaxed job it is everybody wants to be a gp.

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