sanj25828

MOVE TO CANADA

408 posts in this topic

Hi Folks

This may have been discussed before but if you care to reply... please do so.....

After completion of CCT... how easy/difficult is it to secure a consultant post in Canada... I have heard all sorts and would like serious replies....

I honestly do not want to do more exams... is there any scope for me to move to Canada... a good job/salary etc....

How long does the process take... i.e. Job offer>Visa>Move to Canada etc.... Costs Invoved and any advice on salary will be helpful...

I have explored the options of Australia and NZ... still prefer to go to Canada.....

Thank you for any info given on this topic...

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Thank you CMO

I have emailed Dr Gadit to get more info.

I recall, around two years ago... you had advised me about Australia too ( when I was struggling for a SpR post)...... your advice was very useful

Once again.... THANK YOU

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Very good sources. After ur research what do u think about continuing training in canada , flakjak?

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Very good sources. After ur research what do u think about continuing training in canada , flakjak?

Well I gave it up Then as I thought that giving more exams wasn't what I had in mind. I actually have a lot of family there and it would make more sense in my case. BUT the structure is so that IMGs still get the 3rd match in getting any residency, i.e you get a chance AFTER all locals and landed immigrants have been sorted. It is better if you were a landed immi.. but that wud mean committing urself without any guarantee and with a smaller chance. My cousin even tried to do the same but he said you have to be in the TOP of the list of merit to get a fair chance. I have been in touch with their system, they need more doctors ( and psychs) but are not ready to open the system( like the Uk did). I don't want to be pessimistic and I have lost touch in the last 6 or so months so if anyone knows better.....

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cheers flakjak

the sites u mentioned are indeed very useful

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hi

am in canada now visisting my parents in toronto.will be meeting a few psychiatrists in toronto and ottawa and try to get a picture of the current climate.will feed back when i return in three weks.

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Aron

That will be fantastic...

Please do update us on your return

Hope you have a good time in Toronto

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hi prince and rest

just got back.hectic trip ,feeling jet lagged.did manage to speak to a few psychiatrists and one clinical director in canada who work along the east coast i.e toronto,ottawa,montreal and quebec.i will give you guys a thorough update by friday.need a few days to get back to normal.

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well about canada.

i'll try to be as concise and relevant as possible,but do forgive me if i ramble a bit.i was there for three weeks and was about to meet a number of doctors working there and three psychiatrists.

canada is a funny place on first glance,but it does start making sense onec you get talking to people working there.

just a bit of history as this is relevant to what is happenning there and the attitudes now.

canada till about 1945 was following the US  approach of health care,i.e doctors were in charge in providing health care,getting payments and giving jobs.around this time there was a severe shortage of physicians and the common man and the govt were concerned.

a scottish migrant named tommy douglas who became saskatchewans premier pushed through a bill for universal health in the state,and to open up vacancies to doctors from abroad.this was met with fierce opposition from the local doctors through the canadian medical association.previously this org had successfully killed off previous attempts of universal health and govt involvement.this time due to the desperate situation in lack of doctors and high cost of health care,the govt had a brutal and bitter battle with the CMA which had close links withe uts US counterpart.It  resulted in all doctors going on strike.alot of canvassing that the health care would suffer with substandard doctors from  abroad flooding in,alot of racial attacks especially about tommy douglas who was a scot.anyway the strike failed and universal health care was adopted in about 1945.today tommy douglas is known as the most famous canadian ever for starting universal health care in Canada against so much pressure.especially considering being next door to the US with a total health system.continued-

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so they have a universal health system.100 % of physician and hospital fees are paid.abit of prescription and no dental,emergency paramedic care.yes you will be billed for calling an ambulance.

the doctors are paid in 2 ways.first as salaried where you get a fixed amount.

the second more popular is by insurance ,by how many and how often you see your patients.doctors make good money this way earning about £ 90 000-150 000 a year.this is very good money in canada as the cost of living is much lower than the UK.

even though the govt won the battle for universal health care,they lost the one to get in more doctors. cont-

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the battles and bitter memories of the 40's battle still exist.the same old doctors org exist:

CMA, college of physicians and surgeons,each state has its own like the ontario medical organisation.even though everthing appears transparent,its not,you can do the mcee exams,do attachments the tight bottle neck is to get a job.

there is complicated and beuracratic red tape for any foreign doctor.the guys running the medical orgs are the sons and daughters of the docs of the 40's.more obvious is the protection of the lucrative earning which is based on patients seen.

the local canadians and leaders bemoan the lack of doctors and health workers.when  i spoke to the docs there(all immigrants over the last 10-15 years).they speak of shortages.one psychiatrists,spoke of severe shortages.

the posts are not advertised openly,and those foreign docswho did get in did so from knowing the right people and being in the right place.cont-

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due to the the present setup,there are about 12000 docs in canada who have done all the canadian exams and now work as taxi drivers,security guards etc.the lucky ones retrained as pharmacisists and lab workers.the beuracratic red tape (need for canadian experience )precludes people from most jobs.

the picture for medics from all specialities except for GP's and Psychaitrists is very bleak.one doctor said that canada had a severe shortage of neurologists,but this field like most is fiercly protected by the canadaian colleges.

so it does seem that doctors are one of patients worst enemy,and do not trust doctors alone to run a country's health system.we are human and greedy.anyway getting out of point here.

cont-

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now for the good news.

having british experience and having the Mrcpsych is a good thing.States like alberta,saskatoon,new brunswick, new foundland need psychiatrists.eveyone knows that,even the local state govts.but due to the colleges hold open advertisement is not done.

the way to get in is to know someone,or visit and meet local doctors who will offer you a job and get the local state to give you a temporary3-5 year contract to work.

this is what some have done recently:

a doctor trained in london,got her mrcpsych,migrated to canada  before her CCT,worked in saskatoon for five years,got her mcee exams and passed the canadian psych fellowship,moved to toronto and is now clinical director psych ,university hospital.she first got the job in saskatoon through a friend who was a family doctor,who spoke with a psychatrists there.this happenned 12 years ago.she says the need for psychiatrists is much more now.

cont-

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another lady from israel with only her israel PG in psych,got a job in north alberta,signed a contract that she will work there for 10 years and is working there as a consultant.she is bound to work for ten years.if she gets her mcee and canadaian pg examd she can move anywhere in canada after that.she has been there for two years now.

another guy from south africa,with PG and mrcpsych moved to sakatoon five years ago.works as a consultant,could not get through his mcee,continues to work there .he is desperately tring to get to toronto.

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toronto

keep away.the doc orgs there will throw you into the niagra falls.'you substandard foreign devil.we have to protect our poor patients from you all.yes even though most don't get to see uscanadian docs '

so

its still wild west country and there seems to be opportunity to those who will take a risk,be able to sell themselves well and get to know people.the conventional route is not working now.

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so

if you have british training,the Mrcpsych or from similar countries like aus,nz,europe

ther is a chance to break in.

try to get to know someone working there.better still visit with a full cv and referances ready.

try states like sakatoon,alberta,burnswick,nova scotia etc.

they do need psychiatrists but seem to be waiting for people to turn up,and to be appointed quietly at state level.i guess this is because of the general resistance by canadian medical orgs against foreign docs.

i will be a bit selfish here.i will not give the few names and contacts i have as i may need them myself later.i hope i've given a flavour of the current sitauation.

i wasn't earlier,but feel now there is an openning for british trained psychiatrists with PG.some continue to work as consultants without doing local exams.the only disadvantage is that you may not be able to travel and work all over canada.canad is a developed country ,so i don't see this as a big deal.

good luck.its still the wild west with opportunities.its just a different way to get in.its a country with a high standard of living.the weather is the main thing against you.with severe winters.well i guess you can't have it all.

good luck.

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if anyone is thinking about canada,it may be a good idea to try doing the mcee exams now.there are two parts.part one can be taken in london.part one is very similar to usmle part 2.i do not have the details of the exams,but i've heard that its on clinical specialities.

while you're preparing for the exams you could try to visit,get contacts etc.some uk consultants have worked there and could recommend places.

you could also try to get addresses of hospitals and psychiatrists in canada especially in the states mentioned and work up contacts.

i have not looked into the canadian fellowship exam,but was told by the clinical director that it was easier then the Mrcpsych and has a higher passing rate.

the feeling and message i got this time is that there are opportunities.

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Aron,

Thanks for the great insight. I must say that you have rekindled my interest in Canada. The flames went out about several weeks ago when I was trying to do some online research about what opportunities could be found by moving to Canada and I must say that there was so much to take in, what made it more complicated is that each state has different criteria’s for entry into the system. I got fed up  :-/because there seemed to be no clear unitary pathway. Then you hear the horror  :ostories of qualified IMG doing other jobs just to keep body and soul together.

I have got family and friends there and they I have been trying to persuade me to come over for years now. So in the light of the information you provided I guess a visit to Canada is on the cards.

:)

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many thanks aron for this. your input is deeply appreciated.

thanks again for enlightening us

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