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Magna

FAO part II veterans

25 posts in this topic

Sorry to bring back bad memories! Looking to inform those new to the the 2nd phase of MRCPsych assessment. I am keen to start in earnest from tomorrow and wondering whether commitment in time can be shown to improve ones chance of a pass.

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with the old format magna i think you would have definetly passed had you started tomorrow. don't think it should make that much of a difference with the new format either

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I think the new format will require less revision time given a few topics have been dropped + no essay.

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I think you are going to get some selection bias though. I suspect there will be more smug people who revised for 10 minutes and passed voting than those who worked hard for a fail.

I agree though, I think the new exam will be easier, just by its format. I can't believe they have dropped the long case. It is surely the fundamental test of whether you can do the job or not.

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I think you are going to get some selection bias though. I suspect there will be more smug people who revised for 10 minutes and passed voting than those who worked hard for a fail.

I agree though, I think the new exam will be easier, just by its format. I can't believe they have dropped the long case. It is surely the [highlight]fundamental test of whether you can do the job or not.[/[/highlight]quote]

I agree.. and the pmps as well - to a certain extent

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True, but the one that most closely models the fundamental aspect of the job of being a psychiatrist is the long case. It requires you to demonstrate that you can meet a new patient, interview and examine, diagnose and form a management plan. The OSCE stations don't.

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A valid point about the bias but it's nice for me to see over 1/4 of voters passing with <2months revision.

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So you're starting after Christmas, now, Magna? ;)

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True, but the one that most closely models the fundamental aspect of the job of being a psychiatrist is the long case. It requires you to demonstrate that you can meet a new patient, interview and examine, diagnose and form a management plan. The OSCE stations don't.

a truer test of the skills needed to be a consultant would be a test of the ability to sit in a meeting full of idiots talking rubbish without shouting at them, or to be able to formulate a management plan on the basis of an assessment presented by a nurse who says 'they've got a personality disorder and need discharging cos when i saw them they said they were hearing voices but there was no subjective evidence of responding to external stimuli', or to be able to advise a social worker how to manage a patient in crisis that you've never seen before, advising a gp what to do about a patient they've just seen and are worried about when the patient is refusing a psych referral.

being completely honest, i have to say that seeing a new patient (who is only new to me and is actually either a relatively well inpatient/outpatient who is engaging so well with their current service that they agree to see a complete stranger for an hour and to be interviewed in front of two other complete strangers by the first complete stranger for the princely sum of £8 or whatever it is), interviewing/examining, etc ie an exam style situation is a non-existant part of my job.

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True, but the one that most closely models the fundamental aspect of the job of being a psychiatrist is the long case. It requires you to demonstrate that you can meet a new patient, interview and examine, diagnose and form a management plan. The OSCE stations don't.

a truer test of the skills needed to be a consultant would be a test of the ability to sit in a meeting full of idiots talking rubbish without shouting at them, or to be able to formulate a management plan on the basis of an assessment presented by a nurse who says 'they've got a personality disorder and need discharging cos when i saw them they said they were hearing voices but there was no subjective evidence of responding to external stimuli', or to be able to advise a social worker how to manage a patient in crisis that you've never seen before, advising a gp what to do about a patient they've just seen and are worried about when the patient is refusing a psych referral.

being completely honest, i have to say that seeing a new patient (who is only new to me and is actually either a relatively well inpatient/outpatient who is engaging so well with their current service that they agree to see a complete stranger for an hour and to be interviewed in front of two other complete strangers by the first complete stranger for the princely sum of £8 or whatever it is), interviewing/examining, etc ie an exam style situation is a non-existant part of my job.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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a truer test of the skills needed to be a consultant would be a test of the ability to sit in a meeting full of idiots talking rubbish without shouting at them, or to be able to formulate a management plan on the basis of an assessment presented by a nurse who says 'they've got a personality disorder and need discharging cos when i saw them they said they were hearing voices but there was no subjective evidence of responding to external stimuli', or to be able to advise a social worker how to manage a patient in crisis that you've never seen before, advising a gp what to do about a patient they've just seen and are worried about when the patient is refusing a psych referral.

being completely honest, i have to say that seeing a new patient (who is only new to me and is actually either a relatively well inpatient/outpatient who is engaging so well with their current service that they agree to see a complete stranger for an hour and to be interviewed in front of two other complete strangers by the first complete stranger for the princely sum of £8 or whatever it is), interviewing/examining, etc ie an exam style situation is a non-existant part of my job.

Couldnt agree more...

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imho I think there should be pmps....long case is far too subjective on all accounts....!

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What a great perspective J. Thanks.

Starting after Christmas? I should have done, am sick already!

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They'd need a bigger OSCE hall if they were going to do the 'meeting full of idiots' station... ::)

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...like the actual stadium itself????

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Management PMP's.....that would be entertaining.

You are called to a meeting with the Chief executive. He has circulated a memo about the new 'no blame' culture in the trust, but nobody bothered to read it. He proposes that a meeting is called to discuss who is to blame for the failure of the no blame memo. You suspect that you are about to get blamed, what do you do?

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perhaps there should be a long case with an actor and with the same presentation, history, etc so that candidates can be assessed on the same task like in OSCE-s

the examniners will be extremely bored though, perhaps they would have to take turns and the actor

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Management PMP's.....that would be entertaining.

You are called to a meeting with the Chief executive. He has circulated a memo about the new 'no blame' culture in the trust, but nobody bothered to read it. He proposes that a meeting is called to discuss who is to blame for the failure of the no blame memo. You suspect that you are about to get blamed, what do you do?

I think the key issues in this PMP are avoidance of unneccessary blame, denial of responsibility and beurocratic chicanery.

I would first attempt to gather more information about the situation by reading the 'no blame' document. I would then try to gather information from the management team about the background to this, and identify who had initiated the project. I would telephone, email and write to the management team, who will put me on hold or ignore me. I would then go physically to their offices and ask people. Obviously this approach will be met with bafflement and denial that any one had anything to do with the memo. At this point I would need to show considerable resilience, and be prpared not to leave until they can find the people involved. Clearly I would bring a sleeping bag and thermos flask to assisst in this.

Having been told that the person/people responsible for the 'no blame policy' are on holiday/ill/dead I would next ask to speak to the overall head of that department and repeat the above processes.

Having obtained no useful info, I would therefore next seek to put in a freedom of information act request for the above information. After a few months I would hope to recieve a reply, and following this would now expect to have a vague document and no new information.

I would make my apologies for not attending the meeting, and book in a big clinic. ;)

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Management PMP's.....that would be entertaining.

You are called to a meeting with the Chief executive. He has circulated a memo about the new 'no blame' culture in the trust, but nobody bothered to read it. He proposes that a meeting is called to discuss who is to blame for the failure of the no blame memo. You suspect that you are about to get blamed, what do you do?

I think the key issues in this PMP are avoidance of unneccessary blame, denial of responsibility and beurocratic chicanery.

I would first attempt to gather more information about the situation by reading the 'no blame' document. I would then try to gather information from the management team about the background to this, and identify who had initiated the project. I would telephone, email and write to the management team, who will put me on hold or ignore me. I would then go physically to their offices and ask people. Obviously this approach will be met with bafflement and denial that any one had anything to do with the memo. At this point I would need to show considerable resilience, and be prpared not to leave until they can find the people involved. Clearly I would bring a sleeping bag and thermos flask to assisst in this.

Having been told that the person/people responsible for the 'no blame policy' are on holiday/ill/dead I would next ask to speak to the overall head of that department and repeat the above processes.

Having obtained no useful info, I would therefore next seek to put in a freedom of information act request for the above information. After a few months I would hope to recieve a reply, and following this would now expect to have a vague document and no new information.

I would make my apologies for not attending the meeting, and book in a big clinic.  ;)

Thats brilliant chris! :lol:

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Management PMP's.....that would be entertaining.

You are called to a meeting with the Chief executive. He has circulated a memo about the new 'no blame' culture in the trust, but nobody bothered to read it. He proposes that a meeting is called to discuss who is to blame for the failure of the no blame memo. You suspect that you are about to get blamed, what do you do?

I think the key issues in this PMP are avoidance of unneccessary blame, denial of responsibility and beurocratic chicanery.

I would first attempt to gather more information about the situation by reading the 'no blame' document. I would then try to gather information from the management team about the background to this, and identify who had initiated the project. I would telephone, email and write to the management team, who will put me on hold or ignore me. I would then go physically to their offices and ask people. Obviously this approach will be met with bafflement and denial that any one had anything to do with the memo. At this point I would need to show considerable resilience, and be prpared not to leave until they can find the people involved. Clearly I would bring a sleeping bag and thermos flask to assisst in this.

Having been told that the person/people responsible for the 'no blame policy' are on holiday/ill/dead I would next ask to speak to the overall head of that department and repeat the above processes.

Having obtained no useful info, I would therefore next seek to put in a freedom of information act request for the above information. After a few months I would hope to recieve a reply, and following this would now expect to have a vague document and no new information.

I would make my apologies for not attending the meeting, and book in a big clinic.  ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Born to be an NHS consultant, Chris! ;):lol: :lol:

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Management PMP's.....that would be entertaining.

You are called to a meeting with the Chief executive. He has circulated a memo about the new 'no blame' culture in the trust, but nobody bothered to read it. He proposes that a meeting is called to discuss who is to blame for the failure of the no blame memo. You suspect that you are about to get blamed, what do you do?

I think the key issues in this PMP are avoidance of unneccessary blame, denial of responsibility and beurocratic chicanery.

I would first attempt to gather more information about the situation by reading the 'no blame' document. I would then try to gather information from the management team about the background to this, and identify who had initiated the project. I would telephone, email and write to the management team, who will put me on hold or ignore me. I would then go physically to their offices and ask people. Obviously this approach will be met with bafflement and denial that any one had anything to do with the memo. At this point I would need to show considerable resilience, and be prpared not to leave until they can find the people involved. Clearly I would bring a sleeping bag and thermos flask to assisst in this.

Having been told that the person/people responsible for the 'no blame policy' are on holiday/ill/dead I would next ask to speak to the overall head of that department and repeat the above processes.

Having obtained no useful info, I would therefore next seek to put in a freedom of information act request for the above information. After a few months I would hope to recieve a reply, and following this would now expect to have a vague document and no new information.

I would make my apologies for not attending the meeting, and book in a big clinic.  ;)

the only step you missed was the issuing of a carefully worded apology to the chief exec, expressing deep regret for the distressing situation he feels that he is in, but not admitting fault on any part or confirming that he is or is not in a distressing situation. your letter would also say that you would ensure that a full investigation would be carried out and he would be informed of the outcome in due course. should he feel that this does not address his concerns, he would of course be entitled to write a formal letter of complaint to himself.

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