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oruganti

do anyone have clear idea

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Hi all,

I know people might be busy in applying for ST's and preparing for exams..but would be grateful if anyone clarify this..

Some of my friends were of the opinion that if you join in ST3 this year irrespective of your part 2 exam it would be runthrough programme up tp ST6 and you need to finish exam at some point.

I am of the opinion that in psychiatry there is a cut off between ST3 and ST4 ie unless youhave your part2 one will not be allowed to ST4.

It's really important for atleast quite a few beacuse those people who were doing staffgrades now, some of them were skeptical to leave a permanat job and apply for ST3, hwich might be another insecurity if there is no runthriugh programme..

If anyone have authentic information much appreciated.

No IFs,BUTs OR think so PLEASE..

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'do anyone have clear idea'

you must be joking... even the people who created this does not have a clear idea...

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ST3's will certainly move on to ST4 the following year even without the exam! If you get into ST3 you will get a 4 year contract to complete your training.

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Hi QWERTY,

It's really interesting to note your comment.Can you please tell me where did you get this information from..not that i am doubting the authenticity but just to reassure myself ...thanks..

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This is interesting. Potentially in 18 months time there could be ST4 doctors without MRCPsych. You could never have had SpRs without MRCPsych.

And yet if you're applying to ST4 from either an SHO or a Staff Grade post you need MRCPsych!

All very weird.

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you will go to ftst job from st3 for the maximum two years and then would have to compete back in the st4 if you pass the exam.

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lad, you are right,

I was told that if I hadnt passed my MRCPsych, then thats where I would have ended up

And as for SPRs without MRCPsych, it used to happen all the time, in years gone by. One of my ex consultants told me, he became a reg without MRCPsych, but thats cos he was SH*T HOT. His words not mine....Humility was not his strong point

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yes

its all competency based now.if you can prove your worth where ever you r coming from,i.e st,ftst,career post (article 14)---you will get into specialist register and mrcpsych is one of the competency based criteria.

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The other thing is that you might not get to do ST4 in the same deanery as you are in for ST3, because the numbers will depend on how many SpRs move up to consultant and free up funding for the ST4 places. They say that you will continue in training and that there will be a post within your UoA, but not necessarily where you want to work, or in a specialty you want to work in. Which is a pretty crap prospect and kind of goes against the whole seamless run through promises that are supposed to be the foundation of this new system.

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Hi QWERTY,

It's really interesting to note your comment.Can you please tell me where did you get this information from..not that i am doubting the authenticity but just to reassure myself ...thanks..

Many sources...A talk at Maudsley to give one example!

About 1000 MRCpsych will be side-lined this year by failing to get ST4...almost all of them for-ever (unless they manage article 14) and in a few years time will work under their current juniors (who will get into ST3 this year) who will become their consultants without the exams!

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lots of rumours. most of them not grounded in fact.

what we know is...

for transition mrcpsych is essential for entry to st4.

pmetb says the current exam needs to be changed.

everyone says a test of knowledge is an essential competency for career progression (at present mrcpsych is the only one that is acceptable).

other colleges are talking about passing membership at some point rather than being essential prior to st3 (our st4).

what we don't know...

whether or not mrcpsych will be essential for moving from st3 to st4 next year.

i think it is clear how some of the rumours have started.

the maudsley talk example is funny.

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Nobody knows what would happen exactly with regards to progression through the training grade as a clear decsion has yet to be made. However, one thing is clear- the importance of exams will certainly be dimished. What this means in the coming years is unclear.

Somehow, some new members on this thread seem to know more. ;)

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I went to a session by a guy from the college (who might be in charge of assessments) talking about workplace based assessment. He said that if you do well in all of your ST3 competencies but fail part 2 you may be allowed to go into ST4 but you would certainly have to pass the exam before going any further. He also said that they may hold you back for a year but you would still be on in your runthrough. Basically they are trying to accept that some people might be great doctors but screw up an exam on a given day.

Also he said they are looking to change the exam format and making it 3 or 4 times a year so that people have a few goes at it in their ST3 year.

It's bound to change lets face it

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yes, mrcpsych won't be essential to go from st3 to st4 if you prove you're competent in other ways.

the new format of the exam from late 2008 is part 1, papers only and part 2 is OSCE and papers ( written) part 1 is in year 2 and part 2 is in late st3, that's why, if you fail the exam, you still go to St4 as there is no other palce for you to go.

curretn part 1 will remain valid in the new format.

all this info are from a local meeting in my area based on the latest from the royal college.

good luck everyone

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what about people who have done part 1 already but do not go the ST training? if they get staffgrades will they take old formats part 2 or new formats as the people in ST training would take?

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Thanks Paul E..it's helpful and bit hopeful atleast for the guys who would enter in to runthrough programme..

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Hi Thanks Sameer,

This sounds great..and looks very authentic news...

Goodluck fro your ST4(i guess you applied for ST4..)

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If having MRCPsych is deemed a competency then you wont get CCT without it BUT all ST3's are guaranteed a ST4 place if they meet competencies. The college has said all along that their will be an exam component of assessment. It may be that you can resit exam in ST4 but you wont get CCT without it (ie finish ST6).

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yes, mrcpsych won't be essential to go from st3 to st4 if you prove you're competent in other ways.

the new format of the exam from late 2008 is part 1, papers only and part 2 is OSCE and papers ( written) part 1 is in year 2 and part 2 is in late st3, that's why, if you fail the exam, you still go to St4 as there is no other palce for you to go.

curretn part 1 will remain valid in the new format.

all this info are from a local meeting in my area based on the latest from the royal college.

good luck everyone

that's not true though.

the college have not decided what form the exam will take yet.

for the last year they have said mcq/emq for pt1 and osce for pt2 with a portfolio review at the end for a pt3. they have said new pt 1 and 2 are to be introduced in the spring of 08 but they have also said that the pt may slip til aut 08.

as for what is needed for moving from st3 top st4 next year......

no-one knows.

it hasn't been decidced yet. other colleges have said the exam will be something they would like at that level but would not be compulsory, but if someone didn't have it by the end of the end of training then they'd be out. our college have not said that as far as i know.

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what about people who have done part 1 already but do not go the ST training? if they get staffgrades will they take old formats part 2 or new formats as the people in ST training would take?

afaik, the old and new pt2 exam will not run beside each other. the new pt will replace the old pt2.

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