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bobod

MHA

9 posts in this topic

MY PATIENT IS TO BE ASSESED UNDER THE MHA 1983, MY CONSULTANT IS NOT AROUND, AND IM NOT SECTION 12 APPROVED, THE ASW WANTS ME TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ASSESMENT SINCE I KNOW THE PATIENT.

QUESTION IS , IM A LEGALLY OBLIGED TO DO THIS, AND CAN I EXPECT TO BE PAID FOR IT IF I GET MYSELF INVOLVED IN THE ASSESMENT.

PLS :lol: I NEED SOME ADVICE. tHE WHOLE SECTION THING IS CONFUSING ME RIGHT NOW!

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yes u can be part of the assessment as the person who knows the client. As for getting money for it...the answer is yes. You would not be filling out the sec forms but will be filling out the claim form.Confirm it with the ASW as this can vary from area to area

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You might have to fill out the section forms if the S12 doctor isn't present. If he is present then you can do a joint medical recommendation form, otherwise you will have to do one.

Personally I wouldn't ask the SW whether you are eligible to be paid - it is not his decision and some of them are slightly bitter about the fact they don't get paid per assessment (although they do get paid more for being an 'A'SW). I would simply get hold of a claim form and send it in.

The only conflict might arise if the S12 doctor works on the same ward or in the same trust. The medical opinions are supposed to be completely independent.

In answer to your question you're not 'legally obliged' to do it but unless there are reasons you haven't described you can act as the doctor with previous knowledge of the patient.

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Personally I wouldn't ask the SW whether you are eligible to be paid - it is not his decision and some of them are slightly bitter about the fact they don't get paid per assessment (although they do get paid more for being an 'A'SW). I would simply get hold of a claim form and send it in.

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Sure but that's to prove you participated in the assessment isn't it? I don't think it's an authorisation as such, but then I've got no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

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the people in the payment office have no knowledge of anything in my experience (one of the people responsible rang me after being phoned by a nurse in a secure unit to ask why one of their patients with the same surname as me but a different first name and initial kept getting cheques which they were successfully cashing - and there was me thinking that the council were slow in their payments...) anyway, as far as i understand it, from the subsequent conversation and others the signed forms are sent to the local authority payment office who then send out a cheque for the agreed sum. the person who sends out the cheque does it on the basis of the form submitted. i've never worked anywhere that had forms that had details of the time, place or whose patient was assessed so i can only assume that the asw decides whether or not to forward the form.

i've worked in a place before with an asw who refused to sign any forms on the basis that he didn't believe doctors should be paid for assessments. i never did any assessments with him so i've no idea if there is a way to be paid in that situation, but i do know that other sprs at the time were planning to try to seek payment.

i've also heard of a different asw giving 3 forms to an spr after an assessment as they'd gone out to assess the patient 3 times (they only saw the patient the 3rd time cos they'd not got in on the first 2 occassions - the spr in question only completed one form).

as of the last few weeks my secretary has become the person responsible for sending completed forms to the payment office. one of the docs i work with has asked her if they can claim for assessments in worktime. she asked me. i said i don't know. the for has now gone to the payment office.

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the people in the payment office have no knowledge of anything in my experience (one of the people responsible rang me after being phoned by a nurse in a secure unit to ask why one of their patients with the same surname as me but a different first name and initial kept getting cheques which they were successfully cashing - and there was me thinking that the council were slow in their payments...) anyway, as far as i understand it, from the subsequent conversation and others the signed forms are sent to the local authority payment office who then send out a cheque for the agreed sum. the person who sends out the cheque does it on the basis of the form submitted. [highlight]i've never worked anywhere that had forms that had details of the time, place or whose patient was assessed so i can only assume that the asw decides whether or not to forward the form.

i've worked in a place before with an asw who refused to sign any forms on the basis that he didn't believe doctors should be paid for assessments.[/highlight] i never did any assessments with him so i've no idea if there is a way to be paid in that situation, but i do know that other sprs at the time were planning to try to seek payment.

i've also heard of a different asw giving 3 forms to an spr after an assessment as they'd gone out to assess the patient 3 times (they only saw the patient the 3rd time cos they'd not got in on the first 2 occassions - the spr in question only completed one form).

as of the last few weeks my secretary has become the person responsible for sending completed forms to the payment office. one of the docs i work with has asked her if they can claim for assessments in worktime. she asked me. i said i don't know. the for has now gone to the payment office.

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the form(Claim) i recently completed had the time,date, place of assesment on it.

It was later signed by the ASW and then sent to the payment office.

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The issue of payment has come up in our trust.

Apparently in the consultants' contract there is nothing to say that you have to do sections. Something to do with the fact they are a legal responsibilty rather than a clinical one so you're not obliged (like crem forms). The unwritten agreement is that people do sections on their own pts for free during office hours. If you are being the second doctor for another team's patient then you can charge but you are supposed to make back any trust time you have spent doing it.

I can remember feeling pretty miffed when my staff grade used to fuck off at lunchtime to do sections, knowing that he was getting paid well for it whilst leaving me to cover everything on my own for no extra fee.

I don't know whether this is just a local thing or if it is the same everywhere

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