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princess123

Legal advice against the College

87 posts in this topic

Dear all,

 I think we should take serious, legal advice about the CASC exams. I think the following issues should be addressed and signed as a petition by as many consultants and as many candidates as possible.

1) To keep marking areas of concern in front of the candidates as they were perform, is as good as saying - ' U r performing shit' which completely breaks the morale of the candidate and would be deemed as a biased exam condition. It can also work in favour of the candidates as they can change the course of their interview if they see the examiner marking them. Either way it is biased because we all know that marking is ONLY for negative things and not for positive things. In the old OSCE if we saw an examiner mark we would'nt know if he was giving us an A or an E.  But in CASC if someboby is marking us we automatically know it is bad news. In this exam I could exactly tell which stations I had definitely failed (even before I got my results) because as I entered those stations the examiners started marking instantly like there was no tomorrow (it was so clear it is all about counter transferences and vibes the examiners get from the candidates). Otherwise how could that d..k justify failing me in 30 seconds which was so unfair. Candidates should be marked at the end of 10 minutes after they have left the cubicle and not in front of them - because it brings down their morale and also because a candidate can start of a bit poorly but be great towards the end

2) Why not video us? We must demand this at any cost

3) They should under no circumstances expect us to start from Paper 1 in case we fail again in Nov 2009. Taking Paper 3 can be acceptable but not from Paper 1 and 2

4) Staff grade doctors should be allowed to take exams even after the end of 2009

How many of you all are prepared to challenge this biased exam system ? I think we should call for a meeting in London and collect money - write peition, take legal advice and do something NOW

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Some of you might think all this will be counter productive and u guys rather 'study' for CASC.

I failed it thrice without any good reason. This exam has no validity as people who had passed with A in the past CASC stations have failed the same stations with a D this time (they had perfromed exactly the same - better if anything)

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fully agree..

will be happy to help in fidning a good lawyer...

but need at least 20 people for a sample size otherwise we are just outliers...

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fully agree..

will be happy to help in fidning a good lawyer...

but need at least 20 people for a sample size otherwise we are just outliers...

The law isn't science, it is based on consensus and absolute reality so even if the truth is proclaimed by a minority of one, the truth is the truth.

'Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.' M. Gandhi.

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Some of you might think all this will be counter productive and u guys rather 'study' for CASC.

 [highlight]I failed it thrice without any good reason. This exam has no validity as people who had passed with A in the past CASC stations have failed the same stations with a D this time (they had perfromed exactly the same - better if anything)

[/highlight]

I completely agree with you and will support and contribute to any action that will reform this situation. I have been fundamentally and ideologically opposed to this format of examination for the skills reuired at this level of training from my first attempt at CASC and will continue to do so even after (if and when) I pass the CASC.

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Some of you might think all this will be counter productive and u guys rather 'study' for CASC.

 I failed it thrice without any good reason. This exam has no validity as people who had passed with A in the past CASC stations have failed the same stations with a D this time (they had perfromed exactly the same - better if anything)

I failed it thrice aswell (previous format).

Not worth spending time in legal actions or appealing etc.

A tested strategy is to collect your energies and your passions again and go for it with all blazing guns. You WILL get it, believe me. It is just the matter of time

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Some of you might think all this will be counter productive and u guys rather 'study' for CASC.

I failed it thrice without any good reason. This exam has no validity as people who had passed with A in the past CASC stations have failed the same stations with a D this time (they had perfromed exactly the same - better if anything)

I failed it thrice aswell (previous format).

Not worth spending time in legal actions or appealing etc.

A tested strategy is to collect your energies and your passions again and go for it with all blazing guns. You WILL get it, believe me. It is just the matter of time

True ...while I agree with Lad, except this---- appealing is still a good idea .....but getting too emotionally involved in it is not.

A strategic view is to make a comprehensive appeal (read the guidelines) & leave it...so that the college has some sense of whats happening.

Start working for your next exam

You will pass.

Never lose hope, otherwise whats the point of being a psychiatrist?

This bit is definitely true

A tested strategy is to collect your energies and your passions again and go for it with all blazing guns. You WILL get it, believe me. It is just the matter of time

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I am mortified of having to Part 1 again. Will have to seriously reconsider options. The only worry is that as even as a Staff Grade you are not safe in this age of Foundation Trusts if you are not MRCPsych as they can easily end your contract if there is someone they fancy more. Unfortunately I have heard of this happen in other specilities. :-/ The danger is more if you are an IMG.

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eventhough i am not old style part I, I feel that you guys should take this issue up with the college, if paper 1 and 2 can be banked forever why not paper I which included theory and OSCE. why dont you guys form a yahoo group or something, organise yourselves and protest together to the college.They might come up with excuses like u had enuf time and all.but still no harm in trying if not permanent banking for at least a bit more time.

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I think we should have unlimited attempt at the CASC just like the way college had exams for part 2 clinicals

If not, we should all write to the college and oppose their decisions

we are the future consultants and potential members of the college,we all should do things as a group, united, not individually

welcome comments from others please....

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soon casc exam will come near..

we will al forget about it....

some of us will pass... and forget if it even happened..

rest will start a thread again...

catahrsis will happen...

the cycle goes on..

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I recenlty took exam and thought I had failed as the examiners were frantically scribbiling. However I got 16/16. I think its best to ignore them. They can stilll mark areas of concern then pass you.

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This is about complaining not about banking part 1 ....so read the thread dude

Happy chap you may be right, lets see what MT says

I recenlty took exam and thought I had failed as the examiners were frantically scribbiling. However I got 16/16. I think its best to ignore them. They can stilll mark areas of concern then pass you.

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I am a bit confuse about the staff grade situation

4) Staff grade doctors should be allowed to take exams even after the end of 2009

Can you explain a bit more, as far as my understanding is that staff grade can take exam if they have ACEs in psychotherapy and LD or CAMS

Dear all,

 I think we should take serious, legal advice about the CASC exams. I think the following issues should be addressed and signed as a petition by as many consultants and as many candidates as possible.

1) To keep marking areas of concern in front of the candidates as they were perform, is as good as saying - ' U r performing shit' which completely breaks the morale of the candidate and would be deemed as a biased exam condition. It can also work in favour of the candidates as they can change the course of their interview if they see the examiner marking them. Either way it is biased because we all know that marking is ONLY for negative things and not for positive things. In the old OSCE if we saw an examiner mark we would'nt know if he was giving us an A or an E.  But in CASC if someboby is marking us we automatically know it is bad news. In this exam I could exactly tell which stations I had definitely failed (even before I got my results) because as I entered those stations the examiners started marking instantly like there was no tomorrow (it was so clear it is all about counter transferences and vibes the examiners get from the candidates). Otherwise how could that d..k justify failing me in 30 seconds which was so unfair. Candidates should be marked at the end of 10 minutes after they have left the cubicle and not in front of them - because it brings down their morale and also because a candidate can start of a bit poorly but be great towards the end

2) Why not video us? We must demand this at any cost

3) They should under no circumstances expect us to start from Paper 1 in case we fail again in Nov 2009. Taking Paper 3 can be acceptable but not from Paper 1 and 2

4) Staff grade doctors should be allowed to take exams even after the end of 2009

How many of you all are prepared to challenge this biased exam system ?  I think we should call for a meeting in London and collect money - write peition, take legal advice and do something NOW

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We should very seriously petition the College for video recording of the exam and also for more than one examiner for each station. We should have the right to be shown what we did wrong, just saying it was not right is not enough. How should we go about doing this.

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I think we should take it seriously I am also with u people in demanding for making previous part 1 permanat as paper 1 & paper 2 as well as making paper3 permanat with unlimited casc attempts. These are reasonable demands and we can't just sit quietly when college is playing with our lives and making us their own patients with depression. I also took casc thrice and failed.

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We should very seriously petition the College for video recording of the exam and also for more than one examiner for each station. We should have the right to be shown what we did wrong, just saying it was not right is not enough. How should we go about doing this.

Actually you are right about all of them ...recommendations were made in the early 80's to have interactions recorded..look at the pb

The examiners and their feedback

Validity could be improved and assessment made fairer by increasing the number of examiners and rendering their approach uniform. Videotapes of the clinical interview and

the examination situation could be used for feedback. They could also serve to settle cases of appeal in the event of failure.

1982

The MRCPsych Examination

Professor Cawley meets the Education Committee

G. E. BERRIOS,Consultant Psychiatrist, New Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge

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Can somebody pleeeease tell me how to do an online petition whereby we can circulate our petition to various dcotors and consultants that our part 1 should be banked forever and that we should be videoed. I can draft the letter. But don't know how to make this on line petition format.

Any IT wizards ? please come forward

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Can somebody pleeeease tell me how to do an online petition whereby we can circulate our petition to various dcotors and consultants that our part 1 should be banked forever and that we should be videoed. I can draft the letter. But don't know how to make this on line petition format.

Any IT wizards ? please come forward

Quite easy actually

since you've asked & I've done it before.....ie HSMP......I got 2,500 signatures for that,used the No.10, PM's site for that actually

http://www.petitiononline.com/

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/howtowriteapetition.php

1.Keep your message concise

2.Keep it objective....no emotions

3.Practical solutions help

4.Speak to local college reps----but even if they discourage you...go ahead

5.Find out who the petition should be directed/delivered to....call the college

6.promote it on the forum

7.back the promotion with evidence like my last post...sure someone can better that

8.Look at the PMETB standards for exams/assessments all except 2,4 & 11 were implemented in 2008 I think (this is for your guidance)

9.Look at appeals processes for higher education....they are based on ....errors of admin/procedure or good old inadeqaute assessment, bias or prejudice

One suggestion----a permanent pass at P1 may not go down well-----a time limit would-----or you could ask them to consult.

Examiners have 1 day of training a year...I'm sure they would like more

Finally make sure that you aren't't diverted from the most important thing------YOUR NEXT ATTEMPT AT THE EXAM.....

I will definitely help thee promote the petition

as for finding lawyers

http://www.educationlawassociation.org.uk/

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Revenge is best served cold.....so pass the exam......become a consultant.....become an examiner/get involved in the college exam committees...then show them how to do a proper job....which should cause them to reflect on their mistakes.....

As that would make them feel inadequate...

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The effort and time and money and heartache in getting into a legal challenge will be better used to practice, I feel. Can barely afford the exams, let alone solicitors, unless its sponsored!! ::)

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Dear Hawkeye,

U seem to be having much more knowledge than I do mate. Please take the lead then. Write a petition and send it to me if u like or go ahead and circulate it. I am all for it. Obviously we will have one more chance at CASC won't we ? Correct me if I am wrong.

But we MUST stress about Part 1 banking. Where is the guarantee that we will pass CASC in the fourth or fifth attempt (if we request for an extra attempt that is) ? Therefor part 1 banking is a MUST MUST MUST

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