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ST3 appearing for paper 3

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Will appreciate if someone can help with this query..

For those with part 1 in ST3 who will have 24 months experience in Aug,

will it be necessary to pass part 3 and OSCE in spring 08 (when new system starts) to progress to ST4??

Only one chance to progress to ST4 in 2008 will be available if the answer is yes.

Thanks.

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The time scale for Paper 3 and OSCE is 24 - 48 months training. I think that Full membership before ST4 was just an entry requirement for the purpose of MTAS. Not sure though

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Thanks NY

I ve emailed Royal college to see if they know..

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No Need to E mail them mate; just check this link

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/MRCPsych%20Examinations%20ab%20FINAL%20(2).doc

It says clearly that Paper 3 is recommended 24-48 months through training and that OSCE is 30-48 months. Very Clear

Paper Three (recommended to be taken between 12 and 48 months of Specialist training by end of ST3/4) will contain complex knowledge-based EMQs and MCQs-1 from 5 single best answers testing- a) clinical areas of psychiatry, mapping on to the specialty areas (including general adult as a specialty) of knowledge expected at this level of training, and B) critical appraisal of research relevant to clinical practice (Please refer to eligibility structure document).

• The content of all three written examination papers will be published giving the approximate percentage of the paper allocated to each area.

• To allow for more flexibility and to further the need towards greater trainee-led learning all written papers may be taken once eligibility criteria are met (see Eligibility Criteria). A suggested timeframe is given. If a trainee varies extensively from this, local review of training is recommended.

• Papers 1 and 2 may be taken individually or together.

The Clinical Examination (recommended to be taken between 30 and 48 months of post Specialist registration training by end of ST4) will be an OSCE type examination of two parts, completed in one day. The first part will contain ten single, ‘stand alone’ stations each lasting 8 minutes (including reading time of 1 minute). The second part will consist of 5 pairs of ‘linked’ stations, which will allow for the assessment of more complex competences. Each station will last 12 minutes (to include 2 minutes reading and preparation time).

Good luck; By the way, do you like to be a study partner for Paper 3 this coming spring???

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Received this email from royal college. It says something different to what is on their website.

Thank you for your query regarding the availability of the 2008 examinations calendar. It is hoped that the calendar will be available as soon as it has been agreed by the Examination Sub-Committee. Therefore expect to find it on the College website in the next couple of months.

With regard to your second query it is expected that trainees will have reached the competency level of ST3, which would include an overall pass in the MRCPsych examinations, prior to commencing advanced training at ST4/ST5 and beyond.

Regards.

Juliet Mayne

Examinations Project Officer

The Royal College of Psychiatrists

17 Belgrave Square

LONDON SW1X 8PG

T: 020 7235 2351 ext 258

F: 020 7235 9948

E: jmayne@rcpsych.ac.uk

W:http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk

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Even Better

Are you sure you recieved this E mail ??????????? I can not believe it; too good to be true

NY

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of course i received it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I don't understand the above sorry. Sorry for been slow - can someone explain please? Thanks! :)

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Received from the royal college. recent ......

Dear Dr ....

Thank you for your email message.

In order to progress to ST4 it will be necessary to have passed the MRCPsych. However, during the transition period, which continues until 31 July 2010, it is hoped that there will be some flexibility for those trainees who are already in the examination system. This issue is currently being discussed with the Deaneries.

I hope this answers your query.

Regards.

Juliet Mayne

Examinations Project Officer

The Royal College of Psychiatrists

17 Belgrave Square

LONDON SW1X 8PG

T: 020 7235 2351 ext 258

F: 020 7235 9948

E: jmayne@rcpsych.ac.uk

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How long did it take before Juliet Mayne replied to your E mail?? I sent her an E mail a few days ago and shhe never got back to me !!!

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i sent the mail during the weekend and got the reply yesterday.

this is another mail from the pmetb. it is very vague and with out a clear cut answer...

PMETB issued the following guidance regarding progression in run through training:

“Any trainee accepted onto a programme leading to the award of a CCT will be able to continue in specialist training to award of a CCT so long as the trainee passes all necessary assessments at each stage of progression and does not give other cause for concern, and the trainee wishes to continue in the training programme.”

A full copy of the guidance is available here:

http://www.pmetb.org.uk/index.php?id=703

Kind regards

PMETB

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How long did it take before Juliet Mayne replied to your E mail?? I sent her an E mail a few days ago and shhe never got back to me !!!

Around 72 hours

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Got exactly same reply from College:

In order to progress to ST4 it will be necessary to have passed the MRCPsych. [highlight]However, during the transition period, which lasts until 31 July 2010, it is hoped that there will be some flexibility[/highlight]. This is currently being discussed with the Deaneries

It is unclear as to what does this flexibility mean? now when we know that results of Spring 08 OSCEs (part 2 in other words) will only be out on the 27th of July, 2008, just 3 days before ST4. So would they consider us equivalent to those who have passed Part 2 already by giving us a benefit of doubt that we would also pass, or would they ask us to wait until we show them our results?? In latter case, we will lag behind as compared to those who have passed part 2 now, or those last few people who are doing part 2 in Autumn this year.

Do people still think that giving Part2 this year is better than Spring next year, in terms of career progression?? The replies from College are very confsuing.

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to be honest I think that noone knows the answer....!

So I would download the forms from the college website tonight and consider sending them off ( last day is tomorrow, but they still accept applications for one more week for an extra £50...) that is if you are eligible and keen on doing it in a few months..!

I think there will be surprised in line for all next year...! come to think of it...people have got run through st 3 without part II and people who cleared part II just now only got FTST 3 so....

who would you choose to progress next year to ST4? and also how long are you going to wait before this is decided...?

I gues we will find out more when we see our contracts, though I guess these will be vague enough to allow any change next year...!

;)

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I have a different openion regarding taking the exam this Autumn.

What is the point of:

- Starting the stress of new job by adding more stress of that exam.

- Leaving a bad first impression in case one fails

- Studying for Essay, Critical appraisal and MCQs rather than just MCQs

- Having to prepare for a Long Case as well as PMPs and try your luck in both. Simply you can get something you never prepared for in the long case. You may be unlucky enough to have somee of those examiners who enjoy failing people. The alternative option is doing the OSCE which you already passed before and which is 'more objective'as the college claim.

- Having to resit the written if we do not clear the Clinicals !!

I think I can add more points to those above if I think for few minutes.

Let us consider the current SpR system. If one fails the RITA; he or she will be given the option of repeating that year and not kicked out of the rotation. This has to bee the case with ST. They Have to be flexible in the transition perriod for the sake of people who passsed their exams first time and managed to get into ST 3 after 24months training.

Simply, these 'öutstanding' candidate who managed to get ST3 after 24 months should not be disadvantaged because they are unable to sit Autumn. Also being at ST3 level means that you will be dealt with as ST 3 trainee. Nobody can ask you why you have not attempted Autumn etc. Some ST3 trainees have choosen to lose a year or two of their training not to be treated as Higher level trainees.

The college, by putting this timetable for 2008 exams and Eligibility for old part 2, have NO OTHER OPTION but allow ST3 to progress regardless of the results.

By the way, have you noticed that 27th July is a Sunday !! Very Strange, isn't it.

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May be they will expect ST3 trainees to pass paper 3 before moving to ST4. It is not easy to imagine how every ST3 trainee will move into ST4.

As clear as mud.... >:(

hope they issue better guidelines.

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i agree clear as mud....

but I don't think it would be bad to pass the exam come Autumn...so I am going for it...!

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I got following reply from the college for my query.... i hope this answers the q....... i m also waiting for spring 08

'People are expected to pass Paper 3 and the OSCE by the time of applying for ST4, however, there may be some flexibility if this is not the case. The College has not yet made a firm decision about this issue, but when it does details will be available to trainees.'

Kind regards

Claire Drummond

Specialist Training Manager

Royal College of Psychiatrists

17 Belgrave Square

London

SW1X 8PG

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hi also got a reply from a very reliable source

Pls don't ask us what will happen in a years time as you know we don't even know what is happening now.

P.S. Go and enjoy urself. You've gone through a lot of stress already. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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As far as I understand you do definately need to have the exam to move to ST4 but will not lose your run through place if you don't get it in time. Some sort of holding post in ST3 until you get the exam.

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PASSED EXAM- ENTER ST4

FAILED IN 2007 -PASS BY AUG 08- ENTER ST4 IN OCT

fAILED IN MARCH-JUNE 2008-REMAIN IN ST3 FOR ONE YEAR UNTIL AUG 2009

PASSED EXAM BY AUG 2009 (WHILE IN REPEAT ST3 YEAR)-PROGRESS TO ST4

NOT PASSED EXAM BEFORE THE END OF THE REPEAT ST3 YEAR-LOOSE NTN-OUT OF TRAINING LOOP

THIS IS THE FINAL ARRANGEMENT IN EAST OF ENGLAND

NOT SURE IF IT IS THE SAME IN OTHER DEANERIES

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PASSED EXAM- ENTER ST4

[highlight]FAILED IN 2007 -PASS BY AUG 08- ENTER ST4 IN OCT [/highlight]

fAILED IN MARCH-JUNE 2008-REMAIN IN ST3 FOR ONE YEAR UNTIL AUG 2009

PASSED EXAM BY AUG 2009 (WHILE IN REPEAT ST3 YEAR)-PROGRESS TO ST4

NOT PASSED EXAM BEFORE THE END OF THE REPEAT ST3 YEAR-LOOSE NTN-OUT OF TRAINING LOOP

That's a new one. What do you do between August 2008 and October 2008? Is it just a FTSTA3?

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