Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
childpsych

Is MRCPsych Examination being phased out by 2007

24 posts in this topic

Is is correct that MRCPsych examination is being altogether phased out by year 2007 and replaced by five or six year training in psychiatry and annual assessment by consultants and supervisors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what will happen to the hundreds of 575 pounds the college get every 6 months. i dont thin they would want to part with it. :P

where did u hear this new from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You probably did not attend the meetings which were addressed by the Dean of the College. In Dublin he had made this comment. And dont worry about the money. They would devise a new way of getting this money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

haven't heard this relating spec to psych, but would figure in terms of 'modernising medical careers' in that u will apply for whole SHO/SpR thing at once and the whole system is being revamped as of 2007.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is the case, what happens to those who are still sitting for their exams?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

having been to the CTC residential in December, yep, thats all folks for the mrcpsych, according to the current dean. those currently emeshed in the exam system will continue with the exam until they pass: even after the exam is phased out (probably with a limit on no of attempts altogether, but don't quote me, no one knows). so why bother sitting any exams? this all actually is becoming law in october. all those 'lucky bastards' who qualify this year and enter f1+2 years, who choose psych will enter a 'run-through' grade of 5 years (replacing sho and spr), with an exit exam at the end. we will all get the same certifificate at the end (CCT, not CCST), regardless of whether we do the exams plus much longer training, or get our consultants to stick a smilely face on our star chart every year.

Kinda gives you a warm fuzzy glow, doesn't it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, what I've heard is bascially what's been said above. There does seem to be a hideous amount of confusion and very little time. I think everything has been focussed on the foundation programme so far, and they're just getting round to what will come after this.

Looks like it will go ahead in 2007. Somehow PMETB will be involved in exam setting, so college exams may no longer exist. The run through training is allegedly going to be geared more towards in-job training and assessment, but it's likely there will be an exit exam. Whether this marks the end of training or whether there will be a tiered consultant system with further specialist training I don't know.

What's worrying is the lack of any clear plan for existing trainees. It's a possibility that the numbers of training posts in each region will be reduced, so reapplying for jobs may happen. I would imagine that having some exams under one's belt would count for something in this case, but to be honest who knows?

Whatever the case we're all (all junior docs) in for an interesting couple of years...!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am confused with the whole thing, what if the royal college says-'thank you very much guys for all your training in psych. but there wont be any Mrcpsych exams and u have to reapply to get into f1-2 allover again', then mates we are all (part 1 aspirants) in great trouble!!!

It would be so much chaos in the system that we will be made the scapegoats for all the confusion :o

wot ye guys think???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear garamsadhu,

Do u remember when FRCS was changed to MRCS, I think they will wait for some time for current trainees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chill babies, those of you who have started part 1 will have to do part 2. that has been stated by the dean (I heard him say it).

Most of this work has been focused on f1 and f2 but it does appear likely that a certain proportion of training posts will be lost to the foundation programme.

But i refer you to either the bma news or college newsletter (can't remember) where only 8 posts of a whole region were psych (out of the whole f2 scheme, yuk yuk so much for recruitment via taster scheme).

the fact that most of us reading this will be in the exam system cuts no ice and will give no one any advantage. the college are saying that having your membership does not make you better or more qualified than the f1 and 2 people who won't have to do any exams. we will get no recognition for our effort in other words.

Also everyone from this year onwards completing their training will get a CCT, NOT a CCST. ie just the same as the runthru people.

so in short: f1 then f2, then 5 years training (with less clinics and ward work as these posts are meant to be training, not service delivery oriented) and ta da! do an exit exam and you are a consultant.

In comparision, current trainees will do jho, then at least 3years as a SHO (but more likely 4-6yrs) with all the stress and considerable expense of MRCPsych and then 3-5 yrs as a SpR before completion of training.

The new foundation doctors will emerge as GENERALIST CONSULTANTS (who can smell a political term disguised as a 'good' idea?? cynical, moi??). In order to practica as anything other than a bog standard consultant, more training has to be completed: and no one has any idea what the f*ck this means.

So, our exams are meaningless (tho we did know that to be fair), extra years of training, first on call to a&e, abuse from GPs, nightmare clinics, etc all count for nothing and we are going to get totally screwed out of reasonably ok pensions. oh and when we make it to consultant level, we will have to do all the work as our SHOs will need to comply with whatever nutty EU directive is in and will be banned from any sort of service delivery (clinics etc).

god i feel so happy! hope i have spread a little joy tonight!!!! :'(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

garam saddhu,

sorry, meant to say, no you won't have to reapply for foundation 1 and 2. only those leaving med school have to undergo this new treat. people who trained outside uk ??may have to apply for f2 posts but probably not, not been clarified yet as every f1 post will be matched to an f2 post.

so if you currently are a psych trainee and are doing exams at the mo, then just keep doing what you're doing, the changes aren't going to directly apply to you!

sorry, got carried away by my rant!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hiya guys,

Excuse my french, Iam totally pissed off with the stupidity of the college, what is the point then to pass the stupid exams if they dont count towards anything??

And why cant they offer a 3rd or 4th year grade in the new system to someone who has passed his mrcpsych?

Its actually a complete mockery of their own system of mrcpsych exams and bu**sh**t!

I think we all(mrcpsyh exam goer's part 1 n 2) need to take this up with BMA and consult legal advisers and possibly sue the college for being so mindless??

sorry for being so open about my thoughts but I cant see them playing games with our careers :'(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi serab,

Soz to be rude, but if u see the topic we are discussing is about the exmas being phased out by 2007 or not and its not about staff grades getting into SPr posts, so if u please start a new topic without deviating the present one then it would be helpful for everyone or else people wont know what we are really discussing ???.

so please start a new topic if u want to discuss about your queries about spr posts and stuff.

Your help is very much appreciated!

good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serab: it won't affect you; this won't be any different to when the old 'registrar/senior registrar' posts were being phased out to be replaced by Specialist Registrar posts. People who were on the old stream just went on as before and didn't have to worry about getting a number; only people who came in post Calman were affected.

Just keep applying to the forensic rotations but it may be a good idea to apply for a general adult number after a year of looking (if you don't get a forensic number) as more than one year out of training doesn't always go down well with SpR appointments committees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why have everyone stopped discussing this imp matter, dont u wanna get exams and progress. Still there is a lot of confusion around this exams being phased out, have anyone of u got anything new about this? Any new developments about the new scheme? where will we people fit into all this? :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
why have everyone stopped discussing this imp matter, dont u wanna get exams and progress.

Some people have already got their exams etc so it's not directly relevant to them.

There's no need to worry - it only really affects people who are graduating this year as they don't know what the future holds for them, and foreign graduates who haven't yet secured a job as it's going to be much harder for them - do they go directly into the run-through grade (which will be very competitive as there'll be many doctors like you still in post so fewer funded posts for this run-through period) or will they go into F2 posts (unlikely, as F2 posts are matched to F1 posts thus UK graduates automatically get first refusal)

They'll probably end up doing NCG posts - it'll also be interesting to see if many existing NCG doctors apply for this run-through grade as well - it's going to be very competitive, that's for sure.

The people who'll lose out will be the very senior consultants as instead of a 6 month SHO and an SpR they'll get a 4 month F2 doctor (if they are lucky) and a run-through doctor, so the days of leaving everything to the trainees and doing a trillion clinics in Harley street are gradually coming to a end!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats great Digitalspy, you are such a positive minded person!

We are all lucky that you are a member of this forum and time n again give us your valuable advice.

Do you recommend people like me to continue studying for the MRCpsych part 1 which I will be taking in march 2006?hope to see ur reply

cheers! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
whats NCG posts?? ???

Non career grade posts (staff grade, asssociate specialist, clinical assistant)

I'd definitely suggest you go for the exams as per usual, who knows, the MRCPsych qualification could become a very valuable commodity in the future even though it's being threatened with extinction (no doubt the royal college will devise a modular version of it eventually but it's not the same, is it?)

If at some point in the MRCPsych-less future I'm on an appointments committee and someone comes in with MRCPsych and the other doesn't have it, and there is little to choose between them CV-wise, I'll shortlist the MRCPysch one - I'm just an old traditionalist ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say that the resolution will be that you will do the 5 or 6 year 'residency style' rotation after foundation year.

Just like the American Board of Psychiatr and Neurology, you don't *need* to take the exams. If you look, there are people who are described as 'Board Eligible' and 'Board Certified'. What will probably happen is that the RCPsych of course will still exist - all the 6 month posts in the world won't make someone become advanced enough for research if all they can do is service provide.

So you'll end up with 'Membership Eligible' for those who don't want to do the exams. Likely what will happen is they will take the 'Junior Consultant' posts that are rumoured.

I don't know why people are worked up about it. You don't need to do the MRCPsych at the moment! Plenty of people so 2 years and go staff grade for better money and QoL. Nothing is different but it would formalise staff graders/associate specialists and make sure that all psychiatrists (both membershipped and not) have recongised training and if you want a senior consultancy or do research, etc., you will need qualifications.

Or, just like the way it is now, you don't need to.

At least that's my take on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some serious reservations about shorter and so-called 'more focused training.' Already we are getting medical students who are brilliantly briefed in medical ethics, but have no idea what a statin is, or how to treat left ventricular failure.

The fact that juniors used to do 100 hours a week plus,was appalling, but considering that these new foundation doctors will be doing 40 hours a week by 2009 and not have to take any exams - this is unacceptable. If you are a surgical trainee who specialises in bowel surgery and somebody comes in with a perforated gastric ulcer, what will you do. You are the consultant, you have to deal with it!

My training wil take at leat another 4-5 years as I am between exams. If I take time out for further research, does this mean that some rich kid (they all can afford to pay tuition fees now) who has no postgraduate exams and has little experience will get in ahead of me when it comes to consultant posts. I sincerely hope not. Exams are a nightmare, but they are necessary. Think of the public perception. When I'm a consultant, I shall be wary of candidates who do not have exams!

If you haven't gathered by now, I am quite old-fashioned!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look through this old thread.

How wrong the forecast about the MRCPsych those days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Look through this old thread.

How wrong the forecast about the MRCPsych those days.

why bother with it man.. let the old threads remain dormant.. no one bothers to trawl through them.. and the last reply on this one was in 2005 !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it one of your nights man!

Well maybe someone will drop in. :D:lol:

Otherwise RIP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0