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The_Young_Piaget

Appeal agaist exam result

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Hi Guys,

I wanted to post this in the Long case thread, but apparently you cannot post there anymore. So i am posting here it instead (Clever isnt it  8-)).

Well its about my exam results. Unfortunately i did not pass my long case. My long case was a chap who was very difficult and wanted to get out of the room after the first 5 minutes of the interview. He refused to give me any history re : current problems saying that he did not want to talk about it. I got a bit of past psychiatric history like his previous admissions and some background history. They asked me to elicit psychotic symptoms and insight re: medication in the observed intervew task and again patient was not very forthcoming. i ended up being failed by two marks.

My initial reaction was that of a disappointment and i thought it would be unfair to fail me on the long case before i got my marks. My Consultant is now encouraging me to appeal against the result, but having talked to seniors they dont see much point. Can you guys advise about this, especially i would like to hear from poeple who have appealed before againt the decision. Is it worth the trouble. Would it effect my next exam result in anyway. Would be grateful to hear your views about this.

Hope you all have nice festive period  :D.

Piaget

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8-) hello Piaget,

I am sorry to hear you failed the exam. I failed the same exam very marginally as well. I was given 8 in the long case and 12 in the PMPs. I do intend to appeal but the royal college state they would not give me my examiners feedback report till the week of 18th February 2008. How ridiculous? I spoke with a friend who had similar result in the past and his experience following appeal was that he was told that one examiner failed him while the other passed him. And the royal college decided to go along with the examiner who failed him because he had some deficits in the management of the case he had. At any one point it is always your word against theirs. :-?I AM SO DISILLUSIONED ABOUT IT ALL. hOW CAN THE VERY LAST EXAM BY THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF THE OLD SERIES HAVE THE WORST PASS RATE EVER 38.6%? All I can say is if you feel that strongly about it then just go by your instincts and appeal you never know. They may reconsider :-/. How I wish there could be some transparency about what they do exactly with the results for over one month after the exams. I feel cheated out by the Royal College yet again. It is so unfair to allow them continue to mess around with the lives of people in this way. >:(

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when i failed my part 1 osce i was apathetic even to appeal. But my then consultant and medical director wrote a combined appeal on their own to the college. All the college had to show was how i scored in each individual station - i had a ridiculous looking outlier station where i scored 9%!! that didnt help a lot but made my resolve stronger!!

appealing might help you to satisfy yourselves that u did every right thing. i know one guy who was successful enuf to make his attempt 'null and void' and not a fail - but he had to take his exam again nevertheless...

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Sorry to hear about ur results- young piaget and funky. I have been there in tha past, and can understand ur feelings and frustrations against the college which of course as u have rightly pointed out is not transparent.

I didn't appeal, but sent a strongly worded letter to the chief examiner, and I got a standard reply from him, that I was assessed fairly- blah, blah, blah. Persoanlly I haven't heard anybody winning an appeal- I have heard people say that their friends had won an appeal, but I never came across their freinds to confirm this. I would say put in an appeal if that puts ur mind at ease, but don't expect too much- before u realise the next exam will be round the corner, and ur mind will be devoted to preparing for it, rather than thinking about the appeal. and once u pass the exam, which I am sure u will, u will forget about all this in no time

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if you are going to appeal better to do it sooner rather than later; thre are people who have passed after appeals if you have a case and the college wishes to consider it

I really sympathise with you because I also had a difficult patient (not as bad as yours though); however somehow the examiners passed me; it was extremely disheartening to have such an experience in exam situation and I was convinced that I can't possibly pass; definitely it affected my performance.

I guess you have explained to the examiners that the patient walked out and what information you managed to get and aspects of mentals state examination you noticed; did you manage to show that you tried to elicit what you were asked in the observed interview?

how did your conversation with the examiners go? do you feel that the points you made about diagnosis/management etc were enough for a pass etc? the examiners must have asked you about what they knew about the diagnosis from patient's summary.

I suppose if you think you did well in the observed interview and the clarification of case you have a case, as obviously you had no control over the patient giving you the information you needed.

the only problem pople say you are not alowed to sit the exam until they give you an answer; you need to check this and be prepared to go for paper 3 at short notice

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Hello everobody,

Thanks for all your replies and sympathy. I get the impression that the chances of making a successful appeal are quite minimal : the same impression i got from talking to seniors.

Therapy : Yes i did tell the examiners that the patient was not cooperative at all and they actually saw it in the observed interview task. You are probably right: one of the examiners kept looking at the patients notes and was asking me about patients previous medications, information that i did not have access as the patient refused to talk about it. I know that the patient was difficult but i thought the examiners would consider it as they have seen in the observed interview he was quite paranoid and suspicous. One of the examiners actually started asking me about the managemnent by saying 'clearly we have a patient who is very paranoid and suspisious'. Anyway, it would be worrying if i could not sit my next exam until the appeal is cleared as the appeal process can take a while. I got the impression that you could sit the next attempt regardless of the appeal procedure, but will clarify on that.

I guess i would have to make my mind up one way or the other in the next week or so.

Keep enjoying the festive period in the meantime.

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One practical question.

If one does decide to appeal is there a specific from for it or would it be done on a plain paper  :-/. I cant find a form on college webiste (but that may be the exam affecting my visuospatial abilities). So if someone knows of the actual procedure and the form(s) needed, can he/she kindly make it clear.

Any more views in this topic would be really welcome.

Chow. :)

Piaget

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I am going to appeal as well, Long Case 12, PMP 8.

One distracted/preoccupied examiner, asking a key question at the end of each PMP which had already been answered (?Not listening/registering the information).

It was very frustrating but I could not challenge the examiner (put up with the situation in a hope that it would be alright at the end).

As far as I know there is no such rule which prevents you from taking exam before disposal of your appeal.

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I am going to appeal as well, Long Case 12, PMP 8.

One distracted/preoccupied examiner, asking a key question at the end of each PMP which had already been answered (?Not listening/registering the information).

It was very frustrating but I could not challenge the examiner (put up with the situation in a hope that it would be alright at the end).

As far as I know there is no such rule which prevents you from taking exam before disposal of your appeal.

Best of Luck.

Have you come across an official form for the appeal ? From the College website it looks like you just need to give your prrsonal details and the reason why you want to appeal. Can't find any form anywhere. :-?

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I have gone over appealing so many times since I got my results that now I have come to diagnose myself as having obsessional thoughts about MRCPysch ,since I keep getting flashbacks and it always ends up with this is so unfair.

Honestly I know of 2 people who appealed their part 1 OSCE and went as far as possible but still had to resit the exams.

I will never advise anyone against appealing, because even if one doesn't win, it puts your mind at rest that at least you did all you could.

So sad one has to go through all the preparation for the written only to be failed by a disillusioned examiner who wants to cut down on the number of psychiatrist in the system. At least that is the way I feel.

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I have gone over appealing so many times since I got my results that now I have come to diagnose myself as having obsessional thoughts about MRCPysch ,since I keep getting flashbacks and it always ends up with this is so unfair.

Honestly I know of 2 people who appealed their part 1 OSCE and went as far as possible but still had to resit the exams.

I will never advise anyone against appealing, because even if one doesn't win, it puts your mind at rest that at least you did all you could.

So sad one has to go through all the preparation for the written only to be failed by a disillusioned examiner who wants to cut down on the number of psychiatrist in the system. At least that is the way I feel.

Very sad to hear this. I know exactly how you feel. Please dont be put off from applying for exams again. Hopefully we will get there one day.

Can you share a bit more about the actual process of appealing itself. What , if any, supporting documents should be provided. Which aspects should one focus on while appealing, what forms to use etc.

Hope you and everybody reading this have a happy new year (and we both pass our exams in the new year  ;)).

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As far as I know, there is no standard appeal form.

You need to write an application to chief examiner explaining the grounds of your appeal.

I do not think we would be naive enought to pin our hopes on this appeal at the expense of preparation for paper 3.

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I had an examiner in the part 1 osce who asked me about breast feeding 3 times( talk to a consultant one!!!) knowing that I had said no the first 2 times. The 3rd time I just said...' as I said earlier......' It really pi***d me off and I took it for granted that I would fail....but I didnt....

I have no Idea how this whole thing works.

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I have a similar failing experience. Long case score at 8 and pmp at 12. Some how after a long holiday now browsing the forum it is hitting me in my face while all this while I kept denying to myself and saying very intellectual things like 'it happens' and 'well there is more to life and it is after all not the end of the world'.

I have thought about appealing as I was given only 6 minutes to carry on with observed tasks. Though I covered both on surfaces I was always wondering why it was only for 6 minutes. I had completed my presentation in less than 10 minutes and to elicit both obsessive and depressive symptoms I felt the time was too less. Well I could sum it up as my patient quite cooperative and a good historian. I felt good about the long case though u will never be 100%. But I am unsure if can make a case with observed task and would have failed in discussion. My research by speaking with seniors have not been encouraging and feel I should just get on and hope 2008 has something good in store for me. bloody 2007 has been extremely stressful and disappointing all along.

Happy new year everyone.

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Happy new year to you too.

I feel that you are thinking right by acccepting the result and converge your energies towards the exam again.

Good luck.

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I thought I am the only fool thinking about appealing against the exam results but I am not alone......... ;), hey guys I am really disappointed as two examiners thought that I should get 16 in long case and others two thought that I should get 6 in PMPs..............I was certain that I have answered all their probes without doing a blunder or bluffing any thing..............anyways here I am today thinking of giving paper III.

It's rediculous how the examiners mark you in your clinical......just imagine two of them saying that this candidate deserves distiction and others two saying no deserves to fail drastically...........In the feedback they are going to give some B.........t explaination........

People advised me that it's no use to appeal against the result, you are just going to waste money and time, results are going to stay as it is...... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

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I woke in the night a few days ago and wrote an appeal letter. A friend of mine who has previously appealed said he at least got his feedback earlier than he would have done- that seems to be their first step. I'd been ruminating about it after getting ok marks in written and pmps. (MCQ 16, Essay 12, CA 16, PMPs 12, Long case 8) I think the Royal College are unlikely to undermine their own authority by admitting their examiners have been less than perfect, but at least I have been able to sleep since I wrote the letter. As my consultant said, you've got nothing to lose...but I haven't heard of anyone winning an appeal before.

You write a letter to the chief examiner saying what paragraph you want to appeal under. I've posted the link below. I've actually appealed under 1.3 cos of a cock-up with the sphig they gave me, which lead me to be racing around trying to find a socket to plug the replacement in during the last five mins of the patient time. Appeals under 1.1 (I think I should have got better marks) go to the chief examiner for a response initially, then it's up to you to take it further if you want. Appeals under 1.3 go to a tribunal...

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/PDF/old%20Appeals%20Procedure%20(23%20June%202006).pdf

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Ros!

I wish you best of luck with your appeal! Keep us posted..!

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:);) >:(:o

I honestly understand and share the above echoes of disappointment. The college had over a month to compile, analyze and publish the results BUT we still have to wait for another ? 2 months (from date of exam publication) to GET THE FEEDBACK! It beggars belief. What stops them sending the feedback with the letter they sent out after the 14th of Dec? I genuinely think the feedback would have been very useful, especially to those wishing to appeal.

For those wishing to appeal, I think the appeal process is in the college website under examinations. You could even appeal twice, though the last one would cost you about ?£750. I'm very sceptical about the success of any appeals-it's akin to David fighting Goliath without the divine intervention. We need more openness in the college. On what basis are decisions taken regarding the percentage of candidates to be passed? How are pass/fail scores achieved? Are examiners marks tinkered with? I've even heard that a quota system exists. What's the truth?

Happy New Year to all.

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Thanks everybody for suggestions and useful tips.

Ros... sad to hear about this. You got good marks in all other sections. You may stand a better chance of winning an appeal, me thinks, if you apply on some other basis other than that you are not satisfied with the exam results . So fingers crossed for your appeal.

Best of luck to everybody in the next MRCPsych attempt. Hopefully we will get there one day. ::)

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Thanks for the kind words- I'll certainly keep people posted- it all adds to the cumulative experience available on Superego!

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the exam results fairy to swoop down and wave her magic wand, though. I've filled in the application form for Paper 3 already and finally got round to revising again...critical appraisal :P :P :P

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:-/ :-X :P ::) :-? Out of curiosity guys, how does the MRCPsych Exam compare with other royal college exams in terms of pass rate, complexity, difficulty, objectivity, quality of feedback, costs, etc?

Views, comments gratefully welcome.

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Could somebody please clarify?

14 Long Case

8 PMP's

Is it a pass or fail?

A friend of mine got that result. I am insisting him to appeal against it but he is convinced that this is a fail.

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Could somebody please clarify?

14 Long Case

8   PMP's

Is it a pass or fail?

A friend of mine got that result. I am insisting him to appeal against it but he is convinced that this is a fail.

:-X ::) 8-) I would have thought that should've merited a pass. I would certainly appeal if I got those marks!

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I have certainly been told by an examiner that a PMP mark of 14 can make an IPA 8 into a pass- can't be certain if he said the other way round works too, but I think he did...Your friend should appeal- join the party! After all, we might as well make the college work for their £600!

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