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URGENT..EMAIL CAMPAIGN PAPER 3

67 posts in this topic

Now that we have had our period of reflection and learned helplessness….LETS DO SOMETHING.

I propose an email campaign to the chief examiner. Lets all flood his inbox with individual emails expressing our feelings about the Autumn Paper 3.

I have sent an email covering the following points;

1.There was insufficient time given to adequately complete the paper.

2.Some of the questions were very lengthy and due to the time pressure one had to skim them to have any hope of finishing the paper.

3.The overall level of difficulty of questions seemed to be higher than usual.

4.Elements of the examination were from the “basic science “ curriculum of paper 2.

5.Some of the questions appear to have more than one right answer ( including one with the option 1 to 3days or 2 to 3days).

6.There was a heavy reliance on questions asking the male to female ratio of illness the correct answer to which very much depends on which text you heve prepared from and the answers had options so close to one another (eg. 1:2,1:3,1:4) .

Please write your own version giving your point of view. This will carry more weight than just a standard email with different names at the bottom.

Send it to Prof  Bateman at [highlight][/highlight][highlight]anthony.bateman@beh-mht.nhs.uk [/highlight]with a copy to your clinical tutor and anyone else you feel…PMETB etc

Good luck….

[highlight][/highlight]

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PLEASE COULD EVERYONE PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU KNOW WHO SAT THE PAPER 3...WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN and lots of people may not see this post!

Even if you only have time for a few lines lets do it...time is of the essence.

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I have just sent mine off!!!

i think this a really good idea and we should all get behind the campaign.apparently the examiners have a meeting when setting the pass rate/ pass mark and there is a section of the meeting for feedback re the exam...so lets give our feedback.TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW.

Lets tell them how bad it was and not just passively sit and take this terrible treatment.We are not errant children we are experienced professionals and deserve to be treated as such. >:(

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Fauzan Palekar is the admin officer for the examination department, chief examiner is Professor Anthony Bateman

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it really makes lot of sense. I rightly support as the paper was wiered in all possible ways.

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we should act quickly before the result.

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These exams are not only testing core knowledge( basic science) but also management skill, ability to make a good guess and scan through the pages of description and grasp the content. I am sure most of you have taken so many PG exams in many countries and there are exams worst than this.

I think we need to find the right technique than asking for an easy exam. Of course the current exam does not reflect true practice but this hold true for many other professions. We all worked very hard for this exam. Some of us took leave and some other did not. In the end, it did not mater how much you studied. People felt let down by the college.

We want membership from the college and college sets some exams. If we want membership, then we need to pass this exam irrespective of its quality. I have the luxury or opportunity (!) of taking both old part 2 version and paper 3 (twice). It is difficult to say which is bad or worst. The point is both are negative. We do not have choice and we need to clear this hurdle. People do not bother once they pass this exam. In a way, it is a displacement reaction like many of our patients

This is my view and I am sure a lot of you might disagree. But people at college are reluctant to change.

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These exams are not only testing  core knowledge( basic science)  but also  management skill, ability to make a good guess and scan through the pages of description and grasp the content.  I am sure most of you have taken so many PG exams in many countries and there are exams worst than this.

I think we need to find the right technique than asking for an easy exam. Of course the current exam does not reflect true practice but this hold true for many other professions. We all worked very hard for this exam. Some of us took leave and some other did not. In the end, it did not mater how much you studied. People felt let down by the college.

We want membership from the college and college sets some exams. If we want membership, then we need to pass this exam irrespective of its quality. I have the luxury or opportunity (!) of taking both old part 2 version and paper 3 (twice). It is difficult to say which is bad or worst. The point is both are negative. We do not have choice and we need to clear this hurdle.  People do not bother once they pass this exam. In a way, it is a displacement reaction like many of our patients

This is my view and I am sure a lot of you might disagree. But  people at college are reluctant to change.

Well said. I think the College has the right to put whatever exams it want. Statistics, Psychiatry or even common sense. The problem is not the MRCPsych the problem is using MRCPsych as a way of assessment of clinical progression and putting it as an essential exam before moving to higher training. Even though I hold MRCPsych and I am ST4, I do not think it is the best way of testing competencies.

You guys need to write to PMETB not the College. PMETB is in charge of Postgraduate Training and they should know that a big number of trainees do not think they are being assessed according to the published curriculum.

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dr.bateman's email id mentioned above is not working ?

so i sent one email to palekar and another one to grant fisher.( email id's are in examination section of royal college).

IF YOU DO NOT ASK EVEN MOM WONT FEED YOU !!!

IF YOU COMPLAINT YOU LOOSE NOTHING !!!

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I have amended the first post again with the above email address.Please could anyone who has already sent it elsewhere copy it to there.

We certainly will not effect any change sitting bemoaning the college at home.

This is a transition period and as such a period of consultation.It is entirely reasonable that we as professionals feedback our experience to those in authority.

If we don't make a noise there is no chance we will be heard.

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Hi

PMETB is in charge of Postgraduate Training and they should know that a big number of trainees do not think they are being assessed according to the published curriculum.

please find the addresses and links below, I put the names email should go to:

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/training/traineessection/examstatementmarch2008.aspx

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:8NFQxK9QMs8J:www.rcpsych.ac.uk/training/traineessection/ptc/ptcrepresentation.aspx+elizabeth+herbet+psychiatry&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/exams/contactexaminationsservices.aspx

The people we need to write to are

Dr Roseanne Barros (PTC) Psychiatry Trainee Committe

Dr Elizabeth Herbert(PTC)

Dr Cyrus Abbasian (PTC)

Professor Anthony Bateman (Chief Examiner) abateman@rcpsych.ac.uk

Dawn Marshall-Fannon Examinations Question Bank and Committees Manager    dmarshall-fannon@rcpsych.ac.uk

Miss Karla Marshall   MRCPsych Examinations Operations Manager

kmarshall@rcpsych.ac.uk

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This is a very good idea and we should write to all the people concerned, it would also be equally important to write to Prof Bateman about 2009 exam schedule as people taking paper-3 cant take CASC in the same diet, even if they pass paper-3.

Cheers.

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I agree with Pallash; we also need to write about the exam dates for spring 2009. When I saw the dates I was shocked that the college could do this to us, given that even at the best of times the pass rate is only 50-60%.

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dr.bateman's email id is not working. Is there any other e-mail

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Hi All,

Below is the link and also quote from the same document from November 2007 prepared by Dr Ollie White chair of PTC, in which concerns were raised about trainees getting only one attempt at paper-3 exam etc, this document was produced after a survey, but still the college remains insensitive to the genuine needs of the trainee.

So we need to take action.

Cheers.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/PTC%20ST3%20to%20ST4%20survey%20results.doc

The free text responses indicate that there is great concern about the outcome of those trainees who do not pass the MRCPsych membership exams prior to completing ST3. The current transition arrangements for both MMC and the new MRCPsych exams have resulted in a cohort of trainees who will only have one opportunity to sit the exam prior to ST4. Careful consideration and national agreement regarding this issue urgently needs to be sought

Ollie White

Chair, Psychiatric Trainees’ Committee

Royal College of Psychiatrists

19 November 2007

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All these correspondence are grat really but you are complaining about the College to the college. The best response you will get from the college is an acknowledgment that the exam was difficult but the same will happen again and again in the future. You are now questioning the ability of the college to set up a fair exams to assess trainees. This can be done via one of two ways and preferrably both

1- Letting the College know that the current examination Board may not be competent enough to put exams !!!! If you can say so and prove it

2- Let other regulatory bodies (PMETB) know that the college is unable to meet the standards set out in MMC and is testing trainees on things they should not be tested on; again if you can prove it.

Following this, you probably have done nothing but complaining. You have to come up with a suggested solution / alternative approach. What do you want to be done??? This is the most important question. I can think of few possible outcomes:

1- The College admits that the exam was not fit for purpose and repeat it. This is nearly impossible I think

2- The College acknowledge the difficulty of the exam and reassure trainee that this will be taken in consideration in marking the paper and deciding the pass mark; AGAIN !!! The same response was given 6 months ago for Paper 2 and the College did the same this time !!! In fact nobody will benefit from such a response and it is not in the best interest of psychiatric training and trainees

3- The College chages its examining board completely and change the style and format of the exam; AGAIN in less than a year. I think this is unlikely and not really professional and is a very clear evidence of incompetence. SO this is very UNLIKELY

4- PMETB will find another regulatory/ advisory Body other than RCPsych !!! Which one?? RANZCP? American Board? or .... can not really think of any

5- Nothing will happen and everyone will look at this as a moan from people who just failed an exam. I am sorry to say this but it is true

YOU NEED TO THINK WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM YOUR COMPLAIN. WE need to have one voice and express our concerns about TRAINING and EXAMINATIONS and say clearly what we want.

Which option do you want by complaning about the exam?? Which one is more realistic guys? THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE

4-

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Thankyou for your post NY.

Our short term aim is to express our views (THOSE OF US WHO ACTUALLY JUST SAT THIS EXAM) [highlight]so that they might be considered next week when the examination board sits to set the pass rate/pass mark.[/highlight]

i have discussed this today with a senior member of the PTC WHO ASSURES ME THAT OUR EMAILS ARE WORTH WHILE AND THAT THEY WILL HELP OUR PREDICIMENT.

So everyone who actually is effected dont lose focus.OUR opinions will make a difference.

After results day then it is appropriate to take it further with other bodies if necessary.

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Our e-mail will have some effect on passing rate. It happened for paper 2. So evrybody who sat in paper 3 should write as soon as possible by the end of next week.

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Our e-mail will have some effect on passing rate. [highlight]It happened for paper 2[/highlight]. So evrybody who sat in paper 3 should write as soon as possible by the end of next week.

What happened for Paper 2?? 37 % Passing rate !! is that the effect you are hoping!!!

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Thanks for your input NY, but this really concerns those of us who sat the exam and negativity from you like the above post probably only serves to increase anxiety.

Just reiterate..A senior member of the PTC told me TODAY that our emails will help.

One thing is for sure, defeatism will get us nowhere.

[highlight]I urge everyone to email today before the examination board meets to finalise pass rates/pass marks.[/highlight]

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At least the emails are getting some responses, got a reply from Mr Palekar the Head of Examinations that he will pass on our concerns to ESC and that college is reviewing the exam schedule for 2009.

So rather than being negative and being worried and feeling helpless lets all of us write to the college and show our concern. Though I know most of us will try to shoot from someone elses shoulder, rather than doing things themselves.

Cheers.

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