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yaaessilfie

How is the average mark calculated

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I have received the exam nresults and according to them I failed. however from their feedback the mark I got was far below what i calculated it to be. Has anyone an idea of how the average mark is calculated >:(

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ummm the million dollar question angoff method or sum such crap shi*e :(

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I have received the exam nresults and according to them I failed. however from their feedback  the mark I got was far below what i calculated it to be. Has anyone an idea of how the average mark is calculated >:(

They have information on how pass mark are set on the college website, in the exams section.

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one of the rare areas in uk where there is no accountability whatsoever. they decide we need a million quid for the college coffers and the pass percentage cut off everything revolves around the morons sitting around a table and then deciding.is that what this angoff is all about :-/

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one of the rare areas in uk where there is [highlight]no accountability whatsoever[/highlight]. they decide we need a million quid for the college coffers and the pass percentage cut off everything revolves around the morons sitting around a table and then deciding.is that what this angoff is all about :-/

dude thats the nail on the head !!!!

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I cannot but agree. I failed and in addition to the feedback there was a note telling me why there is no need to question my mark and that the college reserves the right not to disclose the number of questions asked per specialty.

If this is not a joke what is it then >:( >:( >:(

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do u guys think its time FOR

NOTICE BEFORE INTENDED COURT ACTION!!!!

college for should fall in line!!!

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do u guys think its time FOR

NOTICE BEFORE INTENDED COURT ACTION!!!!

college for should fall in line!!!

That may be taking it too far.

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do u guys think its time FOR

NOTICE BEFORE INTENDED COURT ACTION!!!!

college for should fall in line!!!

That may be taking it too far.

i get what u are saying but im all for 'accountability' and the college doesnt seem to accountable to anyone !!

a clearer breakdown of scores is both in favour of us being able to recognize and improve on our shorrtcommings and the college's image as being accountable and open  in their dealings !! surely not too much to ask ...is it ???  :-?

:)

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why...dont we pay 4 the exam

doest that make us CUSTOMERS, dont customer have rights.....

at least get voice heard....

at least the country's junidicial syatem is not lawless...

why not...

it is this complecency that hurts

has college ever told us what happens wid d money....

IT IS A CHARITY...........HAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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I'm not against making the college accountable......................but a court action is not the 1st option.

The 1st obstacle is getting together in one voice. A lot of people write on the forum and complain...but when it comes to action of jointly writing to the college, then knees start to buckle.

Other options need to be explored.............College exam dept, Trainee rep,PMETB.

There was a similar outcry after the CASC............read through the section, but only a handful eventually complained to the college.

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agreed...

lets get a vote on this , shall we ??

:)

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Fell free to vote guys/gals....action tyme.....

:)

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Good.....can u add options of combining actions?

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All of the options on the poll are just that. Options. If you want to complain then you should complain. Why have a poll about it when you could just write a complaint letter and send it off to the people you have listed above.?

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i agree with those who feel that college needs to have a better way of explaining what it decides and what factors they take in consideration when deciding cutoff marks.

i am sorry to say that unfortunately noone is willing to go through the process of questioning the college.

i followed the discussion from the candidates that took the CASC and even though everyone seemed fired up but the end result was 0x0=0

i have already done the following on my own:

i) written to the college examination department demanding an explaination as to why the cut off marks for this exam keep dropping since the introduction of the new system, and why is this part mostly affected than the other two.

ii) i have written a letter to the rep. of the RCP training body for our deanery demanding the same explaination and also will be meeting with him personally to followup my concerns as to what agenda the college has for the trainees at our level and what expectations it holds for this exam from us.

i encourage all my other colleagues to follow suit and unless we don't show our concerns we will keep up ending on the recieving end each and everytime this exam is held.

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hey ff

good stuff

is it possible for you to paste here the body of the letter

will help us lazy folks

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yes lets not wait for everyones response or a drft letter.lets just write individually to the ptc, examn department emphasising the lack of clarity of cut off marks, how they are calculated lack of good feedback to failed candidates.

i cudnt understand jack from that stupid psychometric feedback they have sent does not make any sense.

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we should all write letters including who appeared in paper 1,2, 3 and CASC( not just only those who appeared in paper-3)

The college should justfy why the cut off of 60% ant it was around 50 in last two exams(P-3) and why pass rate of 38% which was I think 68% in first exam ?????

I do not understand ????

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One thing is for sure that the standards for passing the exams is increasing which isn't necessarily a bad thing but unfortunately it is not accompanied by an increased standard of training. Most deaneries are still following decade's old teaching programs with no accomodation for the changed pattern of exams. I remember having a lecture on rehab psych where the speaker just took us through the service set up which possibly would have been beneficial for the old style PMP's but had absolutely no relevance to paper 3. We do not get much training in topics such as genetics etc but they are integral part of paper 1 & 2. It is this failure of co-ordinating exams and training standards which is costing trainee's heavily. It doesn't help that deaneries are increasingly becoming trainee unfriendly with cutting study budgets, private study leave etc etc. Yet the timeframe of passing exams has become more rigid than ever(new trainee's will only get 1 shot at CASC). So the trainee's are being cornered from every direction and yet being held entirely responsible for their failures. Most undersubscribed specialities have continued with run through program(to make them more lucrative) but Psychiatry hasn't followed it even though recruitement is all time low. I am worried that if radical changes in training are not made Psychiatry will become the most ridiculed specialty for young doctors if it is not already.

Coming back to the focus of this thread, College uses the most appropriate methods for setting passing marks however the implementation of these methods is seriously flawed. I can't say for sure in regards to theory papers as there is little transparency but I am certain of it in regards to CASC. I have no reasons to believe that implementation would be any different for theory bits. In order to follow angoff method for theory, college needs a panel of examiners who will be well trained to define a minimally competent candidate, would have to mark each question and would have trainee performance data at hand. I am worried that this may not be happening in the way it should be or the panel (if one exists) consists of a closed group of psychiatrists (you know who!!) rather than picking approved examiners at random, worst it could be paper setters themselves for whom every question will be easy....

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its all about money and control.

for me the next step would be to find another country hahahha

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One thing is for sure that the standards for passing the exams is increasing which isn't necessarily a bad thing but unfortunately it is not accompanied by an increased standard of training.  Most deaneries are still following decade's old teaching programs with no accomodation for the changed pattern of exams.  I remember having a lecture on rehab psych where the speaker just took us through the service set up which possibly would have been beneficial for the old style PMP's but had absolutely no relevance to paper 3. We do not get much training in topics such as genetics etc but they are integral part of paper 1 & 2.  It is this failure of co-ordinating exams and training standards which is costing trainee's heavily.  It doesn't help that deaneries are increasingly becoming trainee unfriendly with cutting study budgets, private study leave etc etc.  Yet the timeframe of passing exams has become more rigid than ever(new trainee's will only get 1 shot at CASC). So the trainee's are being cornered from every direction and yet being held entirely responsible for their failures.  Most undersubscribed specialities have continued with run through program(to make them more lucrative) but Psychiatry hasn't followed it even though recruitement is all time low.  I am worried that if radical changes in training are not made Psychiatry will become the most ridiculed specialty for young doctors if it is not already.

Coming back to the focus of this thread, College uses the most appropriate methods for setting passing marks however the implementation of these methods is seriously flawed.  I can't say for sure in regards to theory papers as there is little transparency but I am certain of it in regards to CASC.  I have no reasons to believe that implementation would be any different for theory bits.  In order to follow angoff method for theory, college needs a panel of examiners who will be well trained to define a minimally competent candidate, would have to mark each question and would have trainee performance data at hand.  I am worried that this may not be happening in the way it should be or the panel (if one exists) consists of a closed group of psychiatrists (you know who!!) rather than picking approved examiners at random, worst it could be paper setters themselves for whom every question will be easy....

simurgh u seem tobe quite knowledgable regarding angoff method and other criteria. cud u kindly suggest some wordings when one writes to the college regarding feedback and increased transparency of results. :)

also i agree with ur first point that increasing the standards for passing is infact a good thing.but the only issue being college changing standards up or down with each exam and the lack of consistency with regards to this.

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I dont think people are afraid to complain. last year year they completely messed me up during my Clinicals. I decided to appeal, and it came to nothing. Sometimes there is that strong feeling of helplessness

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What do people tell their patients when they express ideas about helplessness and hopelessness? Do you say 'Oh yes perhaps you are right, you should just go home, lie down and never get up again'? Seriously guys, if you don't raise your issues then the college will assume it is doing the right thing. The same was true of MTAS. For the billionth time - if you are not happy with the way things have gone, then complain about it. Sheesh.

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What do people tell their patients when they express ideas about helplessness and hopelessness? Do you say 'Oh yes perhaps you are right, you should just go home, lie down and never get up again'? Seriously guys, if you don't raise your issues then the college will assume it is doing the right thing. [highlight]The same was true of MTAS.[/highlight] For the billionth time - if you are not happy with the way things have gone, then complain about it. Sheesh.

Err nothing changed though! Anyway I am all for complaining.

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