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(PART I VALIDITY): PART I CANDIDATES, YOU MIGHT NEED TO KNOW THIS

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More than happy to support.

My email: leomaily@yahoo.com

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I am right behind you! my email address is bkurda@gmail.com

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It is a good idea to meet prof.Bateman; but my idea is its not going to make any changes.....i had a discussion with a consultant who is part of RC exam panel and was involved in this discussions for removing the validity of partI. I was told that most of the consultants are in agreement of this descision. But I think RC holds limited chance, if they have been legally challanged on it. to my understanding there are few reasons for it:

RC has never informed the candidates at the time of their attempts and on passing or there was no such clause at that time:

- that there is a limited validity period for this exam.

- that RC hold the right to scrap the validity of their exams at any time in future.

it is something like the HSMP ILR judicial review case (I am sure, most of you are aware of it)....that home office was been criticised by court for making the changes retrospectively and they lost the case.

the main thing with the partI was that after passing it, candidates were expected to pass the other part of RC exams in order to attain membership; and this is a very loose statement......so in a way RC holds the right to bend the future exams in the way they want. but in any case to my undestanding they cannot scrap the validity of the exam, they have created themselves.

again, it is a good idea to have a discussion with Prof.Bateman, discussion may help in making the case in the court. but side by side start thinking for the legal challange.

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RAK is a person who is also involved in the through another platform. I have gave Nido his contact details.

Kamran I like the video at your post.It mirrors our CASC attempts.

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RAK is a person who is also involved in the through another platform. I have gave Nido his contact details.

Kamran I like the video at your post.It mirrors our CASC attempts.

Thanks

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hi,

nido i have sent you an email with my details . Just to let you know i hold part 1.

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hello nido my email is dralibaig@rediffmail.com. SEE WE NEED TO ACT FAST IN THIS MATTER. WHEN YOU APPROACH PROF BATEMAN IN THIS REGARD. HE WOULD SAY THAT HE WILL DISCUSS THIS WITH EXAM COMITTE. BY THIS HE WOULD TRY TO KILL MORE TIME NOT LEAVING TIME FOR LEGAL ACTION. PLEASE GO AHEAD WE WILL SUPPOT YOU 100 PERCENT.

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whats happening NIDO , !!!! plx keep us informed.

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2010 ,EVERYONE.

CHEERS. to keep part 1 validated.

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Hi everyone,

I did the old Part 1 but I am preparing (trying to) for paper 3.

As I am not studying yet for CASC examinations I wasn't aware that Part 1 issue has been discussed on this pool.

Maybe not all of you are aware that there is a separate pool discussing the same issue ('writing letter to royal college, part one sufferers').....is the college splitting us????laugh.gif As you know group cohesion is very important! Would it not be a good idea to start a fresh common pool (not under CASC!!) and work together?

I am very happy to be part of the group that is ready to meet to discuss future action.....after my exam next week.

Cinderella

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Dear All,

I was waiting for a strong reply from all the concerned fellows but over last two wks I got reply from 11 part 1 passed affectees. apart from 2 persons none of them gave me any details which can be used for any further working. most people just sent there e mail addresses. I just want to know that what people want to do and how. in this way it will be difficult to work on this issue. I was hoping to compile a list with college numbers and contact details, so that it can be established that in which area the most people are residing so that a meeting can be called.just with e mail addresses no letter can be drafted or any further move can be devised.

for every body`s intrest , in the last issue of BMA news letter an article has been published.

it is in the issue dated 4th jan 2010 and is on the front page.

-----------

I think if people can have a look and give their ideas, it will be helpful.

--------------------

may be this can give people some idea , how college is thinking about this issue and possibly how we can take it further.

---------------------

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Hi,

nido

I can understand your situation . But you can contact them through emails given and thereafter organise a meeting on a weekend. Its important there are others (Note cinderellas post )who shall be joing the group.

I strongly feel we should go ahead with the legal action and should not waste time on this. I know you have taken an active role in this , would you mind checking posts daily here, to speed things up.

The scheduled meeting shall be to discuss legal action and the necessary funding for the this. I was wondering if Remedy uk could help us!!.

I have sent you my email , i shall send it again with my mobile number. please contact me and cinderella .

WHATS HAPPENING WITH THE PETITION??? IS IT BEEN FORWARDED TO THE COLLEGE. IF NOT PLEASE DO.

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Hi,

nido

I can understand your situation . But you can contact them through emails given and thereafter organise a meeting on a weekend. Its important there are others (Note cinderellas post )who shall be joing the group.

I strongly feel we should go ahead with the legal action and should not waste time on this. I know you have taken an active role in this , would you mind checking posts daily here, to speed things up.

The scheduled meeting shall be to discuss legal action and the necessary funding for the this. I was wondering if Remedy uk could help us!!.

I have sent you my email , i shall send it again with my mobile number. please contact me and cinderella .

WHATS HAPPENING WITH THE PETITION??? IS IT BEEN FORWARDED TO THE COLLEGE. IF NOT PLEASE DO.

Thanks Psych Cat,

yes you are right that getting together and meeting is very important. Should I suggest that on this wkend saturday or sunday a meeting can be planned .(how, where, who will be attending,,,,,,,,,,,?????????????)

The reason I suggested this is because as I said earlier with out knowing that which place will be easy for most people to come to,,,,,,,,it is easy to just say " a meeting should be organised" but actually making it to happen is another matter. the reasonable and easy way, I thought was the having contact details (possibly with mobile numbers and addresses,,,,may be atleast names of the towns),,,,,,,,I am not sure what other method can be used to fascilitate this more easily.

anyone is welcomed to give practicable suggestions. dont want to loose more time. hope to have some ideas.

regarding the petition , I am not sure what happened in the end. did not recieve any feed back from the originators.

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Hi,

nido

I can understand your situation . But you can contact them through emails given and thereafter organise a meeting on a weekend. Its important there are others (Note cinderellas post )who shall be joing the group.

I strongly feel we should go ahead with the legal action and should not waste time on this. I know you have taken an active role in this , would you mind checking posts daily here, to speed things up.

The scheduled meeting shall be to discuss legal action and the necessary funding for the this. I was wondering if Remedy uk could help us!!.

I have sent you my email , i shall send it again with my mobile number. please contact me and cinderella .

WHATS HAPPENING WITH THE PETITION??? IS IT BEEN FORWARDED TO THE COLLEGE. IF NOT PLEASE DO.

Thanks Psych Cat,

yes you are right that getting together and meeting is very important. Should I suggest that on this wkend saturday or sunday a meeting can be planned .(how, where, who will be attending,,,,,,,,,,,?????????????)

The reason I suggested this is because as I said earlier with out knowing that which place will be easy for most people to come to,,,,,,,,it is easy to just say " a meeting should be organised" but actually making it to happen is another matter. the reasonable and easy way, I thought was the having contact details (possibly with mobile numbers and addresses,,,,may be atleast names of the towns),,,,,,,,I am not sure what other method can be used to fascilitate this more easily.

anyone is welcomed to give practicable suggestions. dont want to loose more time. hope to have some ideas.

regarding the petition , I am not sure what happened in the end. did not recieve any feed back from the originators.

Thanks Nido,

I agree with you..and would like to involve actively..my email is raj_raj262003@yahoo.co.uk

I work in Birmingham but can come anywhere for this meeting.

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Hi,

nido

I can understand your situation . But you can contact them through emails given and thereafter organise a meeting on a weekend. Its important there are others (Note cinderellas post )who shall be joing the group.

I strongly feel we should go ahead with the legal action and should not waste time on this. I know you have taken an active role in this , would you mind checking posts daily here, to speed things up.

The scheduled meeting shall be to discuss legal action and the necessary funding for the this. I was wondering if Remedy uk could help us!!.

I have sent you my email , i shall send it again with my mobile number. please contact me and cinderella .

WHATS HAPPENING WITH THE PETITION??? IS IT BEEN FORWARDED TO THE COLLEGE. IF NOT PLEASE DO.

Thanks Psych Cat,

yes you are right that getting together and meeting is very important. Should I suggest that on this wkend saturday or sunday a meeting can be planned .(how, where, who will be attending,,,,,,,,,,,?????????????)

The reason I suggested this is because as I said earlier with out knowing that which place will be easy for most people to come to,,,,,,,,it is easy to just say " a meeting should be organised" but actually making it to happen is another matter. the reasonable and easy way, I thought was the having contact details (possibly with mobile numbers and addresses,,,,may be atleast names of the towns),,,,,,,,I am not sure what other method can be used to fascilitate this more easily.

anyone is welcomed to give practicable suggestions. dont want to loose more time. hope to have some ideas.

regarding the petition , I am not sure what happened in the end. did not recieve any feed back from the originators.

Thanks Nido,

I agree with you..and would like to involve actively..my email is raj_raj262003@yahoo.co.uk

I work in Birmingham but can come anywhere for this meeting.

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I think midlands area is a suitable place with high number of affectees.I already gave my contact details...........

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.....it will be very difficult for me to be there this weekend and the following but I am happy to attend otherwise. Thanks

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hi every one,

so atleast people are willing to meet up and proposed area is midlands. it depends on the number of willing people to attend , i mean any area is fine depending upon the local numper of attending people. so far 3 people have agreed and aparently 2 are from midlands. we need more people, as many as possible. I think that with only limited numbers , it will be very difficult and I am sure others will also agree with this. please let know as many people as we can to make a strong case and then we can take further steps asap.

thanks Zaraksalihy, psych cat, raj and cinderella and others who agree and want to contribute further efforts into this matter.

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Hi,

I would sugest to have some preconcieved ideas before the meeting .

1. Legal petition----To contact remedy uk or solictiors who can give advice on how to go about the challenge.

Someone to contact these people and give them adequate information about the issues(evidence from RC). Some one has collated this information on the forum (nOTE paper 3 area).

2. To contact BAPIO or any other organisation to get some information on legal action.

3.Petition to be forwarded to college , along side legal action.

4. Funding --for legal action???

The above information is important before the meeting , so at least we have an agenda!!

Unfortunaly i will not be able to attend this weekend however ,i am happy for the decision of the other memebers. Please can people think about these issuses and any other thoughts ????

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hi guys. i started the petition and due to some personal committments i have not been able to take it up further with the college. however, i have sent an e mail to the editor of the hospital doctors, which i am sure many of you must have seen at your workplace. it is an influential weekly which has a big medical readership. i believe we need as much coverage as we can get on this issue as it seems to me that this issue hasn't realy rattled many big wigs in the college yet who swwm to be very dismissive of this but are definitely scared of bad press.

i am absolutely sure that a legal challenge is the way forward in this regard. the college would not want to get it's reputation tarnished (hopefuly) by getting defeated on this issue. i am hundred percent sure that college's stance on this stands at best on very shaky grounds and at the worst on very thin ice. the college is definitely stuck between the devil and the deep sea here and we should continue to push it to he wall by any means possible.

please find attached the e mail (which i have deliberately kept informal) for your information.

i will keep you guys informed of any progress in this regard.

i will not be able to attend the meeting but will be happy to contribute financialy for the legal challenge. i would like to be kept informed about any decisions that are taken in the proposed meeting and would encourage all of you to feel free to ring me any time in this regard.my e mail can also be used for the purpose.

waqqaskhokhar@doctors.org.uk

@@nido: i would like either yourself or somebody else to send the petition to the college for further action please. i have some very difficult personal circumstances that demand my full attention and i dont want to disappoint you guys by holding onto this any further.

Dear Editor

I am writing to bring your attention to an issue of grave injustice extended onto the psychiatric trainees and especialy staff and associate specialist group by the Royal College of Psychiatrists. The Royal College has reterospectively decided to invalidate a pass in the part 1 of it's examination following introduction of a new examination system.This new system has been embraced by many trainees for ongoing progression. However, the bone of contention resides in the fact that the college has decided to invalidate a pass in MRCPsych part 1 reterospectively. The trainees were not aware or informed that this could be the case when they had sat for this exam.

This has been a sourse of great distress for many trainees and sas group who feel cheated and abused at the hands of it's own college as a lot of effort,time and money could go to waste that they have already put into passing this exam. This is also in contrast to the college's decision to keep an equivalent of the mrcpsych part 1 examination pemanant in the new examinaton system. This disparity is not only disheartening but also blatantly abusive.

The specialty of psychiatry has started to feel the aftermath of MMC. Recruitment and rtention problems in this already battered specialty have started to surface now with full force. We feel that this decision would furthe aggravate the problem as many people would consider other options like going to greener pasteurs like america,canada and australia who are proactively trying to recruit exprienced psychiatrists from the UK. this is scandelous as a lot of tax payer's money is spent on training and teaching these very experienced doctors.

A recently set up e petition has attracted the signatures of upto 200 doctors. We are also contemplating a legal challenge as the college has refused to listen to our various pleas in the form of many letters that individual trainees had sent to it's chief examiner. Many have only recieved standard replies which only express an autocratic, one sided and unsympathetic view of the whole situation.

please find atached a link to the petition for your information:

http://www.ipetition...alid/index.htm

i will be happy to answer any questions to clarify the situation further.

i believe that your esteemed journal can be a perfect venue to raise the awareness in this regard. i am aware that a recent short article appeared in the bma journal as well on this issue. however we need your support in this regard as your support during the times of mmc was hugely influential and was held in high esteem among the trainees and higher grade doctors alike.

please feel free to contact me either by e mail or on my phone

07768556129

regards

waqqas khokhar

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hi guys. i started the petition and due to some personal committments i have not been able to take it up further with the college. however, i have sent an e mail to the editor of the hospital doctors, which i am sure many of you must have seen at your workplace. it is an influential weekly which has a big medical readership. i believe we need as much coverage as we can get on this issue as it seems to me that this issue hasn't realy rattled many big wigs in the college yet who swwm to be very dismissive of this but are definitely scared of bad press.

i am absolutely sure that a legal challenge is the way forward in this regard. the college would not want to get it's reputation tarnished (hopefuly) by getting defeated on this issue. i am hundred percent sure that college's stance on this stands at best on very shaky grounds and at the worst on very thin ice. the college is definitely stuck between the devil and the deep sea here and we should continue to push it to he wall by any means possible.

please find attached the e mail (which i have deliberately kept informal) for your information.

i will keep you guys informed of any progress in this regard.

i will not be able to attend the meeting but will be happy to contribute financialy for the legal challenge. i would like to be kept informed about any decisions that are taken in the proposed meeting and would encourage all of you to feel free to ring me any time in this regard.my e mail can also be used for the purpose.

waqqaskhokhar@doctors.org.uk

@@nido: i would like either yourself or somebody else to send the petition to the college for further action please. i have some very difficult personal circumstances that demand my full attention and i dont want to disappoint you guys by holding onto this any further.

Dear Editor

I am writing to bring your attention to an issue of grave injustice extended onto the psychiatric trainees and especialy staff and associate specialist group by the Royal College of Psychiatrists. The Royal College has reterospectively decided to invalidate a pass in the part 1 of it's examination following introduction of a new examination system.This new system has been embraced by many trainees for ongoing progression. However, the bone of contention resides in the fact that the college has decided to invalidate a pass in MRCPsych part 1 reterospectively. The trainees were not aware or informed that this could be the case when they had sat for this exam.

This has been a sourse of great distress for many trainees and sas group who feel cheated and abused at the hands of it's own college as a lot of effort,time and money could go to waste that they have already put into passing this exam. This is also in contrast to the college's decision to keep an equivalent of the mrcpsych part 1 examination pemanant in the new examinaton system. This disparity is not only disheartening but also blatantly abusive.

The specialty of psychiatry has started to feel the aftermath of MMC. Recruitment and rtention problems in this already battered specialty have started to surface now with full force. We feel that this decision would furthe aggravate the problem as many people would consider other options like going to greener pasteurs like america,canada and australia who are proactively trying to recruit exprienced psychiatrists from the UK. this is scandelous as a lot of tax payer's money is spent on training and teaching these very experienced doctors.

A recently set up e petition has attracted the signatures of upto 200 doctors. We are also contemplating a legal challenge as the college has refused to listen to our various pleas in the form of many letters that individual trainees had sent to it's chief examiner. Many have only recieved standard replies which only express an autocratic, one sided and unsympathetic view of the whole situation.

please find atached a link to the petition for your information:

http://www.ipetition...alid/index.htm

i will be happy to answer any questions to clarify the situation further.

i believe that your esteemed journal can be a perfect venue to raise the awareness in this regard. i am aware that a recent short article appeared in the bma journal as well on this issue. however we need your support in this regard as your support during the times of mmc was hugely influential and was held in high esteem among the trainees and higher grade doctors alike.

please feel free to contact me either by e mail or on my phone

07768556129

regards

waqqas khokhar

Thank you very much for your efforts . Your letter puts across our position very well. We will keep you updated synesthesia.

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hi guys. i started the petition and due to some personal committments i have not been able to take it up further with the college. however, i have sent an e mail to the editor of the hospital doctors, which i am sure many of you must have seen at your workplace. it is an influential weekly which has a big medical readership. i believe we need as much coverage as we can get on this issue as it seems to me that this issue hasn't realy rattled many big wigs in the college yet who swwm to be very dismissive of this but are definitely scared of bad press.

i am absolutely sure that a legal challenge is the way forward in this regard. the college would not want to get it's reputation tarnished (hopefuly) by getting defeated on this issue. i am hundred percent sure that college's stance on this stands at best on very shaky grounds and at the worst on very thin ice. the college is definitely stuck between the devil and the deep sea here and we should continue to push it to he wall by any means possible.

please find attached the e mail (which i have deliberately kept informal) for your information.

i will keep you guys informed of any progress in this regard.

i will not be able to attend the meeting but will be happy to contribute financialy for the legal challenge. i would like to be kept informed about any decisions that are taken in the proposed meeting and would encourage all of you to feel free to ring me any time in this regard.my e mail can also be used for the purpose.

waqqaskhokhar@doctors.org.uk

@@nido: i would like either yourself or somebody else to send the petition to the college for further action please. i have some very difficult personal circumstances that demand my full attention and i dont want to disappoint you guys by holding onto this any further.

Dear Editor

I am writing to bring your attention to an issue of grave injustice extended onto the psychiatric trainees and especialy staff and associate specialist group by the Royal College of Psychiatrists. The Royal College has reterospectively decided to invalidate a pass in the part 1 of it's examination following introduction of a new examination system.This new system has been embraced by many trainees for ongoing progression. However, the bone of contention resides in the fact that the college has decided to invalidate a pass in MRCPsych part 1 reterospectively. The trainees were not aware or informed that this could be the case when they had sat for this exam.

This has been a sourse of great distress for many trainees and sas group who feel cheated and abused at the hands of it's own college as a lot of effort,time and money could go to waste that they have already put into passing this exam. This is also in contrast to the college's decision to keep an equivalent of the mrcpsych part 1 examination pemanant in the new examinaton system. This disparity is not only disheartening but also blatantly abusive.

The specialty of psychiatry has started to feel the aftermath of MMC. Recruitment and rtention problems in this already battered specialty have started to surface now with full force. We feel that this decision would furthe aggravate the problem as many people would consider other options like going to greener pasteurs like america,canada and australia who are proactively trying to recruit exprienced psychiatrists from the UK. this is scandelous as a lot of tax payer's money is spent on training and teaching these very experienced doctors.

A recently set up e petition has attracted the signatures of upto 200 doctors. We are also contemplating a legal challenge as the college has refused to listen to our various pleas in the form of many letters that individual trainees had sent to it's chief examiner. Many have only recieved standard replies which only express an autocratic, one sided and unsympathetic view of the whole situation.

please find atached a link to the petition for your information:

http://www.ipetition...alid/index.htm

i will be happy to answer any questions to clarify the situation further.

i believe that your esteemed journal can be a perfect venue to raise the awareness in this regard. i am aware that a recent short article appeared in the bma journal as well on this issue. however we need your support in this regard as your support during the times of mmc was hugely influential and was held in high esteem among the trainees and higher grade doctors alike.

please feel free to contact me either by e mail or on my phone

07768556129

regards

waqqas khokhar

Synesthesia, I have just clicked on the petition link and there seems to be a problem as I cannot open it. Please have a look. Thanks

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cinderella, please try the link from the page 2 of the paper 3 forum which contains the original post.i accessed it from there without any apparent difficulty.

but mind you i have been told this before as well and i is possible that as i started the petition, only i could access it.

if that is the case ill try to forward it to the forum somehow.

having said that i have also noted some recent signatures as late as yesterday on the petition,

so your guess is as good as mine on this.

Edited by synesthesia

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thought to share this very encouraging reply frm mike broad (editor of the hospitaldr website) with you guys. he has agreed to run a blog on the topic initialy. i am going to respond to him today with the required details. the hospitaldr website can be accessed from the remedy uk's home page as well. i am also attaching the petition signature list with this post which people can use to communicate with the college, if they like, in view of the above mentioned difficulties that some people are experiencing in accessing it.hope this is helpful.

Hi Waqqas,

Thanks for the email. I did see the story in BMA News, but the way it was

covered didn't suggest a high level of anger at the move. Because they've

covered it, I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be more appropriate as a blog.

If you could put a little more detail/background into your email below -

explaining how the exam structure used to work and how it has been changed

and the rationale for ignoring people who have passed part 1 - I'd be happy

to run it prominently as an opinion piece. It could be a call to sign the

petition - which is difficult to do in a news story. Once we've run it, we

could then demand a response from the Rpsych.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Mike

Edited by synesthesia

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this is my reply to mike.please do not hesitate to contact him directly if you have any thing further to add. i think we should also take hint from his remark whereby he appear to be suggesting that we have not shown enough anger and resentment that this issue actualy matters to us. food for thought hmmmmmmmm........

dear mike

many thanks for a prompt and encouraging reply. wewould like to leave it in your capable hands and if you feel that running it as a blog initialy is going to be more beneficial, then we would go along with it. i am glad that you picked up on the 'anger' factor as their is a lot of resentment among trainees and sas group psychiatrists against the college. the reason why it has probably not come across like it should as yet is possibly due to the 'shock' that we are going through. who would believe that it is your own college which is doing this to you. the college's facebook page moderator even removed my entry on the facebook and accused the doctors going through this difficulty as being 'incompetent'.this utter disregard for people's varying circumstances who actualy proved to be progressing through the od system is shambolic and a farse.

anyways i would describe the problem here briefly for the blog.

the royal college of psychiatrists changed into a 3 written papers (modular) and a casc (clinical assessment of skills and competencies) examination system from march 2008.in this system a pass in paper 1 and 2 can be banked for ever.however, after passing paper 3 of the exam, you get 4 chances at casc.if you fail to pass it within allocated time frame, you are expected to resit paper 3 and then the cycle goes on.

this is different from the old exam system which ran and was valid until march 2008.under that system the exam was divided into 2 major parts.part 1 and part 2.each part had a written and a clinical component.part 1 comprised of a written paper that covered most of the syllabus of the current paper 1 and paper 2 in the new system.however, it was also expected that trainees would pass an osce based exam to be qualified as pass in mrcpsych part 1 examination as a whole. for part 2 people used to sit a written exam and had to pass a subsequent clinical exam in the same diet to qualify for the mrcpsych qualification.

now the problem is that when trainees were taking their part 1 exam, it was meant to be valid for ever.you were not required to re sit it once you had passed it. there was no suggestion that it would be invalidated in future and many new consultnt and current higher specialst trainees actualy went through th same system. we do not have any qualms about the change in examination system but the fact that the college reterospectively decided to de recognise one of its' own well regarded exam (which formed the basis of selection of many trainees into st3/ct3 posts during mmc) is completely beyond comprehension.

many trainees and sas specialists have given a lot of time and money and had toiled hard to gain a qualification that earned them the right to sit for the part 2. the college now wants to make part 1 completely obsolete from july 2010. trainees and sas doctors would then be expected to sit for paper 1 and 2 of the new system before they could take casc after passing paper 3 of the new exam system. we believe that it is unjust and college has exposed itself to a potential legal challenge with this.we believe that colege should revise it's reterospective decision for the benefit of it's trainees and banefactors. this has serious implications for the careers of many doctors who are a great resourse for the nhs and has served it heartly for many years now.

we also believe that the college is contradicting itself and would not gain any benefit in its campaigns on attracting local medical students to the specialty by setting such a gory example. trainees and sas group are life and soul of the psychiatric service provision in the country.we are sure that new medical graduates would look at college's pleas very suspiciously, if it continues to cut the same branch that it is actualy sitting on.

i hope this clarifies the situation in this regard.feel free to ask for any further clarifications, if you require any. i thank you again for your help.

regards

waqqas khokhar

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